Where could you give yourself more permission? Have you been doing something so long (waxing your eyebrows, tolerating your slow computer, denying yourself naps) you’re not sure it’s serving you anymore? Can you reject the rules? Janelle and Andrea share their permission lists--stuff they’ve accomplished and what they’re still working on. There’s a nod to LVDY, 3-5 Club and Lift the Spirit Choir. You’ll hear:
--How Janelle listened to her body and stopped working out
--Why Andrea still doesn’t send out Christmas cards--How far Andrea had to go to learn to do nothing
--How our memory often underestimates (or overestimates) our suffering
--Why no one is to blame for this permission conundrum
I hereby give you permission to wear glitter, cowboy boots or you flavor of flair anytime you want!
TRANSCRIPT:
Andrea Enright 0:01
Hi Friend Hi friend enter the brave hearts listening out there welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea
Janelle Orion 0:08
and I'm Janelle.
Andrea Enright 0:08
Get ready for some real time relationship whoo and wisdom from the frontlines with occasional tantrums and tears about how breaking rules blurring boundaries and tossing tradition can be catalysts for finding your truth.
Janelle Orion 0:20
Let's debunk the fairytales we were told as children and create a new map for life. Yes, Disney can go fuck it. If you're seeking permission to choose your own path, freedom is the new afterward people and want to feel less alone along the way. We got you.
Andrea Enright 0:36
Please note, this is our side of the story. Our partners and metaphors have their own individual experiences and we do not speak for them.
Janelle Orion 0:50
Hi, bravehearts. It's Janelle.
Andrea Enright 0:52
And it's Andrea. And I just said, here's two loose scripts. What does that mean? It just means we have kind of a loose script today. Sometimes I like to have things more nailed down. And okay, always want things to be the more. But it's nice to just be like, Okay, we're just gonna talk about this today, because we do like to have this conversational podcast. And today, we're going to be talking about giving ourselves permission in small ways that lead to slightly bigger ways that lead to even bigger ways that lead to monumental changes in our life. And
Janelle Orion 1:30
we have this idea came from an executive coach friend asked me, What are two things you could do? That would have the most positive impact on your life right now. And these can be big things or small things. But
Andrea Enright 1:47
the idea is, is that they are tangible and could happen immediately. But really, this is about permission. This is this is an immutable podcast. So you know, we're already doing these things. But sometimes you have to dial it back and be like, Oh, it doesn't have to be something big. So what was different when she asked you this question, fit felt different than just giving yourself permission.
Janelle Orion 2:09
It was more than recognition of oh, I've been holding off denying myself something that I was afraid, oh, this thing is going to cost me money. But I was discounting how much energy it was costing me. And I think for me in that question, it was the recognition that positive impact actually meant, where could I add more ease into my life?
Andrea Enright 2:39
That's a powerful statement. Because positive impact isn't always about getting something or getting something new. But it's energy protection. Yes.
Janelle Orion 2:47
And so we interact, we just had a little like example of it. I don't know if you can see them bravehearts. But we have two microphones dance, they're, you know, basic $20 Things you can get off of Amazon. And they actually cause us a fair amount of grief. Yeah, we complain about them. Every, yes, every podcast. And so the recognition is, oh, we already have them. They work fine. We don't wanna spend more money to get more get a new one. And yet, are we actually causing ourselves more negative energy a negative impact by keeping them? Versus Oh, a positive impact on our lives? If we never mentioned microphone stands again, right, would be to spend $30 to get a new microphone stand.
Andrea Enright 3:33
Right. And so that just brings up for me is that we are common misters perception about these things, right? Because I remember having this gratitude journal that I started in Costa Rica, and I wrote down a smiley, like, I recorded my mood every day. Mm hmm. Basically just smiley face, flat face. Sad face. Yes. And, you know, it was up and down over time. But when I looked back after a year, what I thought of is kind of a down year really wasn't because I remembered it wrong, because our memories are not that great, right? And so what happened was it Oh, I did have these these down times. But then then I also plenty of times as well. And actually more of them.
Janelle Orion 4:20
Oh, this is so fascinating, because I am willing to bet that my tendency would to remember everything is positive.
Shocking.
I was totally fine.
Andrea Enright 4:36
totally blacked out all the times that were totally shitty. Interesting. Yes. It let's just be clear that we don't always have this. You know, it might be very different depending on if you're talking about a party or you're talking about a year or how much grief a microphone gives you or whatever. But I think in either way, our memory is a little bit deceptive. Like it's not showing us the clear picture all the time. So it might be a great idea to write down like, wow, what is something where my energy is leaking? and think, Okay, how much time did I spend on that today? Was it 30 seconds? Was it five minutes? Was it half an hour? And start tallying that up and then looking back and be like, oh, yeah, you know, I spent, what's a good example? Like? Like, I lost two hours of sleep on the plane today, because I don't have one of those fucking pillows for the plane. Right? I like every time I'm at the airport, and I was like, No, I don't want to spend $42. But like, over time, I've accumulated so much time where I could have slept. Right? And haven't, yes. How much more was that benefited my life when I'm getting to my destination? Yes. Just as something I thought about recently. Yeah. And I've been traveling more recently, and I didn't get one. I didn't get one. I didn't get one. I just bought one. Congratulations, giving yourself permission. So there's, there's some kind of a misperception here. So what did you do when your friend asked you this?
Janelle Orion 6:02
So So what was your move? So something that I had been thinking about and thinking about was like, Oh, my computer is on its last legs. It's seven years old. It's been such? It's been such a so great to me. And you
Andrea Enright 6:14
had it when I met you? Yes. That was it wasn't your token, different item, you know, I love it, right?
Janelle Orion 6:19
Because I was piece of a PC person. And anyway, but like, it's on its last legs. And but I've been like squeezing by with it. And then also my battery on my iPhone is the type that you know, it's going along. And then suddenly, it like dies, right? It's like so quick to dissipate. And so what I did, and I've been thinking about it, but like, Oh, it's fine, it's fine. But like complaining and bitching, and like waiting for the computers just start and not start. And is it going to start? And so I bought a new computer. And I replaced I went to the you break it I fix it place. Totally. New battery on my iPhone.
Andrea Enright 7:00
Yeah. Great. And a lot of pain. That is that is preventing you. Yeah, right. Yeah,
Janelle Orion 7:05
I they're both brand new. This is the first time I'm using I just got the iPhone battery two days ago. And then the computer just arrived today. So it is still new. But it's the idea of Oh, my life should run more easily now. Because the two pieces of technology that I use all the time,
like every 20 minutes every time, minutes of your day, right should actually
now be more ease.
Andrea Enright 7:29
This is a conversation that I had with my daughter recently. I'm like, don't you want to dress her? She's like me, I don't need one. But her clothing is like a mess. And she's like, I just don't want to deal with it. It's just It's fine. You know, I just want to, I was like, but why don't you want to make that? You know, so I was I was arguing with her about this doesn't matter, whatever. But she's like, Mom, you've had this shitty iPhone for like, two years, and you keep going back to you break, I fix it wasting money on that, because I don't want to deal with the hassle of getting a new iPhone, picking it out making the transfer. And so I was just putting it off. And I use it all the time. I mean, I use that every five minutes of my day. And I can't get in because I don't have the face recognition. And you know, it did button doesn't work anymore. There's all sorts of things that don't work about it. So I was doing the same thing.
Janelle Orion 8:18
Yes, totally same daughters. So. So I
Andrea Enright 8:23
know this. This feels like mundane conversation. But this is like the what makes our days move easy. Yeah, I
Janelle Orion 8:28
think this is we're pointing out the ways that we actually make our lives more difficult.
Andrea Enright 8:34
Yeah, so Bravo. You just did that. Yeah. made two big decisions there. So in what small way bravehearts? Can you give yourself permission to make your life easier? Like that's the big question there. And so we're just gonna tell you today, like where we like how in small ways we've given ourselves permission to do things. And just how big the ranges Yes, permission list
Janelle Orion 8:56
and versions. And this was also just a really interesting exercise.
Oh, yeah. To recognize, oh, here's something that I didn't used to do. And I'm doing now. Well, okay. So
Andrea Enright 9:05
the first thing was that I thought of when you were talking about your iPhone, and your computer is my VA, right? Because I was super resistant to getting a virtual assistant. I call her a virtual amaze ball now, my name is Vera. She's awesome. And I was like, No, I can't afford that. Like, I'm not gonna pay an assistant to do all my stuff. And I had these assumptions, and I had to challenge them. And eventually, I made that leap. Really, thanks to a three to five club. Yes. And I remember one
Janelle Orion 9:34
of the resistances that you had is who's gonna want to do shit. I don't want to do and everyone was like, someone who likes to do this shit. And who really would like to get paid for I know
Andrea Enright 9:47
it's like such an ego centrism. I totally thought that for so long. I'm like, Who wants to do this this stuff? Yeah. And yeah, gets so many responses from people who wanted to do it. It was just such a, like a bomb. cuz I was living in a tunnel vision I had about it. Anyway, I also let you know, I had to release control of my schedule. And I'm always getting on my soapbox about bas with my clients. So that's one thing I gave myself permission to do. So other things are like, not keep my kitchen floor as clean as my mom would write. Like, this is kind of just like, Nope, I'm not spending time doing that. Like, there are writers who have written books, I think Anne Lamott and Elizabeth Gilbert talk about, like, just let the dust bunnies be under the bed and do your writing instead. Hmm, right, right. But it's tough. You got I gotta tell you, because I go to my mom's house, I go to my mother in law's house to go to my sister in law's house. Oh, their houses are all cleaner than mine. Like, why is that dirty, but it's just not deep cleaned on a regular basis. And I definitely am like, we like that. But I definitely would rather be writing or drawing or dancing or singing at my house. And so
Janelle Orion 11:01
Oh, well, yeah. Good job. Give me yourself permission.
Andrea Enright 11:04
Right. Okay, that's one.
Janelle Orion 11:07
So for me
back and forth. Okay, great. Find this assignment. That was That felt good. Yeah. I'm giving myself permission to consider how I feel as the most important metric. Not how much something costs. Now, how much long? It's how long it takes. It's how does it make me feel? Now, I'm not perfect at this permission slip, but I try to keep it in mind. Yeah, no, this
Andrea Enright 11:38
just makes me laugh. Like, how are you doing that? Like, what the fuck?
Janelle Orion 11:43
That's you. We'd all like to do that. That sounds like a fucking fantasy.
Well, I'm here to report fantasy.
Andrea Enright 11:52
It's actually I could practice as a practice. Okay, so give me an example. A couple examples. Okay.
Janelle Orion 11:58
So for me, I want to take a bath. And getting in the bathtub makes me feel just like just something about it's like grounding. And like, it's useful is this is like, it's good for my soul. And if I was to sometimes in the bathtub for like, two hours, sometimes three hours. Now, there's a part of me that's like, what the fuck Janelle What do you doing hanging out in the bathtub? And there's another part of me that's like, I feel really good in here.
Andrea Enright 12:33
I'm gonna film you in the bathtub. Yeah, we're gonna record our podcast in the bathtub. One day is like the more of like a how are we friends? Right. Now, not really, but like, but yes, no, that's amazing if the bathtub is good for you, but I know you sometimes take three baths today. You told me that. That was
Janelle Orion 12:51
that was a special occasion. Okay. And it was It wasn't 24 hours. It was like two two in one day. Totally. Not
Andrea Enright 12:56
doing anything but like, I hate I don't like taking baths. Yeah. But okay, so you give yourself permission to take a bath and that you feel like taking a bath even though it goes against what logic? Yeah. Yeah,
Janelle Orion 13:09
go to productivity, even though I sometimes work in the bathtub. But it's, it's the, the idea is, oh, I this I need this like this is going to have Yeah, I'm gonna feel better if I do this.
Andrea Enright 13:22
Make sense? Okay. That is based on feelings. So would you can we just break this down a little bit? Would you say there's emotions versus like, feeling like, in your body healthy, like, This feels good for me. Versus like, oh, I
Janelle Orion 13:39
don't want to do the dishes.
Andrea Enright 13:40
I don't feel like doing the dishes. Okay, I'm just gonna do the dishes. But if I did that every day, then there would be no dishes done in my house.
Janelle Orion 13:47
Right? Yes. But okay, so that's the main just positive. Let me think about that. Yes. Okay. Just
Andrea Enright 13:52
to just, it's a discernment really.
Janelle Orion 13:58
Okay, I can relate to this in two different ways. Great. Like, just last night, I live by myself at the moment well, domiciled lives here sometimes. But we're not often here together. So it's usually just my dishes that are in the sink. And so I could just go to bed and wake up and doing them in the morning. But I agree with you. I'm like, okay, the dishes have to get done. If so, there is a baseline that I acknowledge the dishes are gonna get, right. And so the question was, for me was, uh, do I have to do them tonight, or I can do them in the morning. And I was like, Oh, I kind of don't want to do them right now. But I actually don't want to wake up and have dirty dishes in the sink. So I'm going to do them now. Okay. The dishes I think are a good example. Because actually, I feel better when my house is clean of dirty dishes. So I actually even if I don't like to do the dishes, per se, I like having a clean sink. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 14:48
great. So to me, you're just discerning between the feelings. Yeah. Feeling you don't want to do it now is the feeling of having to do it in the morning is much worse, right? So
Janelle Orion 14:56
great. And ultimately the feeling of having them done that I have After it's all done. Yeah is best. Yeah.
Andrea Enright 15:02
Okay, awesome. That I think that's helpful. All right, let's see what's next. How about singing a choir without a really good voice?
Janelle Orion 15:12
We both did that. We
Andrea Enright 15:13
both did do that. Oh, it's a joint one. Yeah, we both decided it was okay to join a choir, but you really did it first. I
Janelle Orion 15:22
did. And I did it. I had a psychic tell me that I needed to work on my throat chakra. And she gave me some suggested suggestions how one of them was to take singing lessons. And I did with Kathleen, who is the leader of this choir. And after I took those singing lessons, she she actually started a choir after that. And then I was like, Okay, I think I can do that too.
Andrea Enright 15:42
Yeah, exactly. Kathleen Hooper, lead singer of lady was the theme on her podcast, theme song. Okay, great. And then I then you told me about it. And then I was like, I want to sing. That sounds so amazing. And now I'm part of the choir and like, my voice is okay. Like, it's fine. It's not horrible. It's not amazing. It's just okay, but I don't have to sing a solo. I'm singing with other people. Raise me lots of joy so much. It brings you so much joy.
Janelle Orion 16:07
It also brought me joy on the in anymore. And it is the recognition that oh, that like we were I thought I had to have a great voice to be able to sing. Turns out no, you can have indecision. Okay. Voice. Yeah. And, and you could actually have a better voice and still sing in
Andrea Enright 16:24
a choir. Yeah, for sure. And you can get coached along the way. Or you can do a small part. So yeah, there's lots of great things there. All right. Let's see. I think a lot of like, looking at mine, like, Oh, yeah. Men are just all about these rules. I thought I had to follow going on. Yeah, so now there's a fashion one that is just killing me. And I'm trying to figure it out and also go my own way. But it's something I'm like grappling with. And it's wearing sneakers with any outfit. I know this isn't this is first world issues here. Like this is really true. When I was growing up, I'm like, sneakers are for fucking working out people. What are you doing? Like? Like, I did not think it looks good with any outfit. I was just as they become an adult. I'm just like, Okay, well, like I just don't care about sneakers are not my thing. Right? So now I wear them when I workout. And I never wear them any other time. Now everyone has sneakers on. And my daughter's like, so why aren't you? Are you gonna get some sneakers? Like? Like, why would I do that? Like my toes in the summer are sweaty, why would you cover up your toes? I would just want to wear my flip flops, like or sandals or you know, I actually don't even have any sandals. Like I just wear flip flops. So yeah, for me, it just like doesn't compute. It's one of its there's hardly any fat. There's no fashion rules anymore. You can wear them to tuck you up. But when I see someone in a dress, and tennis shoes, I'm just like, What is he like walking from their house to work in the middle of Chicago? And then they're gonna change their shoes when they get there? Is that what they're doing?
Janelle Orion 18:02
are professionals right? So deep? Yeah.
Andrea Enright 18:05
Oh my gosh. And I've never one Converse. But of course, yeah, my daughter has like dunks and blazers and converse, and I mean, people sneakers have been on the rise for over two decades. Yes. You know, they're very, very trendy, very popular.
Janelle Orion 18:19
This is not a new trend. No,
Andrea Enright 18:21
of course I'm totally about I mean, I'm way behind that. I don't care. But I've seen it forever. And I'm just I've just been like, No, this is not for me. It's not my thing, which is fine. Like, I definitely don't adopt every trend at all. But there was something my daughter said that was like, oh, I want to be able to like, be able, how do I describe it? I forget the word she used. But we were walking around downtown and she wants to be able to run or jump or move in a certain way that she couldn't do maybe with sandals or flip flops on. And I was like, oh, okay, it's like a capability feeling. Which helped me understand it more, I think. And then then there's also this thing about having what they call your dogs out. Do you know what this means?
Janelle Orion 19:06
I've given my blank face. Um,
Andrea Enright 19:08
yeah, just like a teenager thing. Like, there is no wearing your toe open toed stuff in high school anymore. Oh, yes. You know this. No. Oh, no. Like, do not show your feet people will make fun of you. I'm not joking. It's Oh, it's so weird. I never because everyone's wearing these, you know, super expensive by the way, like, you know, we're talking like Yes. 80 To $300 sneakers. And yeah, I wonder if this is like nationwide, but I have heard it from like, multiple different teenagers. It's just like, you just get made fun of if you're wearing Birkenstocks Oh, okay,
Janelle Orion 19:39
this is not nationwide because I was just in one vineyard with a whole bunch of teenagers and all of them are wearing Birkenstocks.
Andrea Enright 19:47
Interesting. Yeah, maybe it's a summer like pool pool versus school thing though. Right. Like I bring it to the pool over there. Yeah, school. But anyway, the point is, it doesn't matter. I'm giving myself permission to wear tennis shoes with anything and Seeing how it feels. And I'm also giving myself permission to wear flip flops whenever I want. So I think this is really just about adopting trends versus rejecting them. You know, and kind of just getting over rules in your head. I mean, it's obviously very
Janelle Orion 20:13
real it's coming up I don't know if you still have it on here is because I had to write you couldn't wear black belts with brown shoes or vice versa growing up, Robert, right that right? I mean, And so figuring out and go but yes, that that was a permission where things
Andrea Enright 20:28
anyway so that's that's sort of trendy fashion break.
Janelle Orion 20:35
And I remember you getting tended to use kind of recently. I've done commerce since my 20s. Yes, your converse,
Andrea Enright 20:40
but you just got the very trendy new white with a gold star. There.
Janelle Orion 20:44
They're all gold. Other adult, sorry. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But that was because that's what it was other common threads. And that was what was calling me. So the common threads is our favorites restore. Yeah. Which is also where this dress is fun.
Andrea Enright 20:54
But it was a new thing. Like I had not seen you in tennis shoes much. No, yeah, I haven't done Congress in a couple of years. Yeah. Okay, so
Janelle Orion 21:02
what's next for you? A big permission thing for me, was, or is in the moment is that I'm not working out. I stopped with my trainer, who I was doing like small group classes with. I stopped in February, so since March, and I've been waiting for my body to tell me what activity it wants to do. And I'm an athlete, I played volleyball in college, I raced mountain bikes, I have like us, my body was in credit CrossFit for many, many, many years. And there's been moments in my life. I think there was one time where for bout 10 months that I didn't have a structured, athletic activity that I was doing well. But this is a long way from us has been like four months. And I'm just realizing that my body feels good. And so my body isn't telling me not to be working out. Okay, my body's like you need to rest. Why? So yeah, what was the sign? Just I was starting to really dread going to to work out. It was like, back to like, oh, there was an energy, like, suck in going, which it used to be I might have the energy sector before but then I'd go and it would feel great. Anyway. Yes. But there was like, oh, there's an energy second going. And I'm not feeling as great after. I'm not quite sure. But like this the tipping scale. Love it scales tipped? That is great. Yeah. So it's an expert. I mean, it's I'm very aware of it. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 22:31
I'm sure because you're it's changing your day. But I think that is huge. Because there definitely have been times when I'm like, across the years, and I'm like, don't feel like doing this anymore. And then don't get as much of the reward as I used to. But I mean, I have to work out somehow. Right? Well,
Janelle Orion 22:47
but so it is interesting is that, first of all, I am a big believer in being healthy and working. But there's a concept. My dad is a subscriber of this concept. He's like, I never understood that you would like go indoors to work out like you go on your, you're just doing the things that life requires. And you're sort of like working out, right. And so the idea to pay to workout was like a foreign concept to my dad, right? But he worked out every day of his life, right half at least a half an hour of some sort, going for a walk around for a bike ride. So for me, I'm also aware of Oh, even though I'm not like, quote, unquote, going to the gym, I feel very physical in my body. For some reason. Even though I'm lounging and taking baths a lot. There's a there's a physicality that I feel like I'm bringing to my de energetically it's hard to really explain, but that I don't feel like I'm getting weaker. I'm also noticing, like, I don't know if anyone else would notice that my body has changed that much. It's this. And this is going to bring me to another piece of permission for me. Which was, oh, do I think I look better when I'm working out and I know that that can be that's 100% and can be true. And at this moment, I'm like, Huh? Like, I don't I can a embrace the cellulite that are my thighs. Like, I don't have to be working out. So I don't have cellulite. Like that is like I can just like my smiley. It's not changing. I get sick, love myself that way. And I also have gotten my eyebrows and my upper lip waxed pretty much every like, month or every two months. Since I was 16 It's a long time, right? I just stopped also I think maybe I don't remember Aesop's maybe in November. And I don't use my breasts. And like they actually don't look different. Right? And I was like, Oh my gosh, I've I just been going thinking that I was gonna look totally different. And like my eyebrows were gonna grow in and cover my eyes like
Andrea Enright 24:51
oh, what did I think was gonna happen? It's sometimes we're just so programmed, right? So
Janelle Orion 24:54
can I go just when do I mean? I was just on like, autopilot. Oh, boy. Look at my appointment, I go book my appointment, I go. And then suddenly I stopped going. And I'm like, Well, I don't look any different.
Andrea Enright 25:05
That I mean, these are the kinds of permissions you have to really start to ask yourself, What am I doing? That doesn't serve me anymore that I've used. So in the habit to do it. Yeah, I
Janelle Orion 25:13
just hadn't. I just had never questioned not getting my eyebrows waxed.
Andrea Enright 25:17
Yeah, and of course, this whole time I've known you. I really had no idea you were doing. Yeah. Yeah. Just squeezed it in somehow. Yeah. It was just all Yeah. Is that is interesting. But that's what this is about is there's so many little things. Because even as I started writing this, I was like, oh, there's so many more things. I just don't, I just don't remember because it's basically how we, it's a record of how we've changed since to
Janelle Orion 25:42
write what we think is important, right? Like, oh, I'm sure I know, I have more hair on my eyebrows. But I don't care. Right. Yeah, your values have shifted? Yes.
Andrea Enright 25:54
So I think this is perfect. Bring me to my next one. Which, yeah, it was a little more meaningful, which is doing nothing. Hmm. And this is, this is huge. And I feel like I really learned it in when I went to Costa Rica. And there was we had a lot of quiet time, my daughter's school was further away, she chose a bus to bus to school, like, and so it wasn't being pulled by that. I said, because of the combination of circumstances, I wasn't as busy. And there was a field of cows across the street from me. And I would just sit for long periods and not do anything. And, you know, like, not two hours, but like, like, you know, 30 minutes at a time, like meditating. I'm not sure just noticing, just observing, just trying it out, because there was quiet and I felt like I could give myself permission in that atmosphere, partly because the culture was also quite relaxed, not focused on productivity. Everyone says, Don't go to Costa Rica to get your book done, no one will hold you accountable, they will tell you to go surfing. And that's really what happened. And it's changed my life ever since then. And it, I have to say it is a constant, it's still a constant battle. Because that part of me wants to spend time doing nothing. And the other part of me is like, fuck are you doing get going get stuff done.
Janelle Orion 27:23
So okay, here's the question I have for you. Is the part of you, this is like the inner versus the inner knowing versus the outer which
Andrea Enright 27:34
inner which versus evil twin. Okay, thank
Janelle Orion 27:38
you. Inner which versus evil twin? Which is that this productivity get going get going? Right? Is that conditioned by culture, because we live in a culture that is productivity based. And the part that is like, oh, no, just rest and meditate and be quiet, is that the listening so like, I hear I hear that there's a there's a conflict, but is one a conditioned?
Andrea Enright 28:05
I think I wish it was that easy. It's not like, they're both conditions in a way, like, because our society now tells you self care, rest, you should take a bath, you should get your nails done, don't worry about it. And then a lot of our culture says don't stop, if you stop, you're gonna, you know, things are gonna fail, you're gonna drop the ball. So both those messages are coming in. And I'm noticing that I can rest as long as I know, it actually rejuvenates me for something in the future, right? Am I going to come out of that rest feeling more lazy, or energized for the next thing?
Janelle Orion 28:45
That what you just said was like, Oh, these are two messages that are coming in. So to me, those are both then evil twin, like these are both external messages. And what you just said, is what I'm hearing as your inner which and the internal message. Well,
Andrea Enright 28:58
you asked if they were both cultural conditioning, and they both are. Those are that's the external cultural conditioning. We can we can go either way. Yeah,
Janelle Orion 29:05
but okay, but so your how your how your so the internal message is you're deciding the rest is important. The internal messaging service is important. But then it's productivity. But yeah, and in this way, the rest is important, if
Andrea Enright 29:19
correct. And I know internally, not externally, if the rest is going to bring me toward more laziness, or more energy. And so it's really about that discernment. This is it all just keeps coming back to the discernment because I do like to sit around more. And at some point, I'm sitting around too much, and I have to get going. Right. And that's true, too. Yeah. So it's just about balancing that out. And I think I know inherently as you were describing the physical. I know when I haven't ran in more than three days, or four days, I started to just like an irritable and I just there's something off And that's when I know I need to go do that again, right? Even if I don't feel like running, because I will feel better after what we described with with working out. So this is really just about listening to those two voices. And I guess I would remind you that the voice you want to listen to is the one you hear when things are quiet. As opposed to the one you hear when things are loud and anxious. Yeah, that's not the federal we'll go with that.
Janelle Orion 30:24
Okay, great. Okay, so something else that I give I'm giving myself permission for is that I now only fly direct. And I don't do overnight flights. It used to be I would find the cheapest fight. And that's not true. anymore.
Andrea Enright 30:39
Interesting. Okay, you just always find the cheapest and even if it was overnight, you're like, whatever. Yeah, sleep or Yeah. Ha, that's a that's a big that's, I'm impressed that you've been did that for a long time. Yeah. Like what else? It's fine. Like, you'll make it right. And now just on top. Okay, cool.
Janelle Orion 30:56
I've been, I think I've flown on top for a long time. But I did the overnights I probably my 20s and 30s. But yeah, it was just a recognition. And now it's really like, oh, like, what's the flight time? That's the best like, again, back to like, oh, how does it make me feel like, oh, the metric here like money is certainly a factor. But there's also Where is like, where's the traffic in New York? My fine. Am I getting in at 5pm and rushing traffic? Or am I going to be getting in and it's too it's gonna make things easier. So I really take time to evaluate. Where's the ease in the travel schedule? Yeah,
Andrea Enright 31:27
awesome. Gosh, I gave myself permission years ago to not finish a book. There was a long time where I was like, Nope, I gotta finish it. Even if I don't like the bow. If you're reading a book. Yeah. Even like a fiction book. Usually, though. I'm just like, oh, not really feeling it. I don't care about this book. And I was like, No, I need to finish it. So then I can accurately critique it easily because I wanted to talk about it with my friends or in a book club or something. And now I'm just like, No, I'll give it like 20 pages, and then I'm done. Okay. Yeah, that's a great boundary. Yes. Yeah. For sure. You're just not doing it.
Janelle Orion 32:04
Next. Yeah. It's interesting, when you're saying that, because not on my list here. But I just realized this is that for the past year, I gave my myself permission not to read. Oh, good for you. Yeah, I have been doing so much reading, as you know, and like listening and reading. And then there was a moment where I was like, Oh, I'm full. I need to integrate. It felt like I just didn't know if it was like, Oh, I can't take any more in I have all of the information I need in this moment in time to figure out what it is that I'm figuring out, which I don't it's not even clear to me. And then, and reason why I'm even naming it is because I just started reading a book this past week. And I was like, Oh, I started reading your book again. Okay, great.
Andrea Enright 32:49
Sounds like it was in flow for you. Yeah. Good. You another one. What else you got?
Janelle Orion 32:57
I actually think we switch to is, what are we still not giving yourself permission to do?
Andrea Enright 33:03
Right? Oh, let's see that. I am noticing that. As I read your mind, I'm like, Yeah, I still haven't given myself permission to send imperfect Christmas cards. Oh,
Janelle Orion 33:17
what? What would define it to be them to be imperfect? Pretty much, you know, just
Andrea Enright 33:21
Well, wait, wait, ask your question again.
Janelle Orion 33:24
Like is not Would you allow yourself not to send them? I've
Andrea Enright 33:29
never sent them. I've never sent Christmas cards my entire life, because they won't be perfect. So I'm just not going to do it. It's true. It's like an old old wound, right? Okay, wait,
Janelle Orion 33:40
I'm like super confused. This is like a convoluted way of thinking. So I was thinking that you weren't gonna let yourself send out a Christmas card that had a typo on it. But you're like, No, I've never send out Christmas cards, because the demand for perfection is so high. And I don't want to put that effort in.
Andrea Enright 33:56
Yeah, pretty much like, yeah, and I probably still won't because I'm too afraid to. But so that's what I'm saying. I'm like, I've still not given myself permission to send their Christmas cards because I know that they will be somehow not good enough.
Janelle Orion 34:10
By this metric.
Andrea Enright 34:14
My own I mean, my own really like, nothing really. I don't see anybody else's reaction to them. Yes. But yeah, I mean, Christmas cards would come into our house was growing up and clearly they were all judged.
Janelle Orion 34:28
Oh, right. And like, I'm just like, oh my god, I'm not I'm not I'm not doing that. Right. Yeah, you're not setting yourself you're not gonna put yourself out there to get judged.
Andrea Enright 34:37
Yeah, right. I mean, I don't feel this way about so many things in my life, but that's an old one. That's hard to let go of everyone
Janelle Orion 34:45
who's sending Christmas cards
Andrea Enright 34:50
I didn't even get any Christmas cards. That's the thing. And I'm like,
Janelle Orion 34:53
Oh my God, that's great. I love them all. I'm
Andrea Enright 34:55
not judging them. I'm really nice. Like, awesome, right like at all, but it is just like, I remember trying thinking I was going to several years and never doing it. I'm like, Yep, pretty much won't do that. I mean, obviously, it's a bigger issue of like trying to be perfect. And so like when, you know, that's that's my work work to do. And I've made lots of big strides on it. And still hard. Something stick. Yeah, yeah.
Janelle Orion 35:19
Yeah. So go ahead. What's
Andrea Enright 35:21
What's one of yours that you haven't,
Janelle Orion 35:23
I would say, to you that I have on here are both in a way, like self care related, which is when I haven't given myself permission to get fancy sheets. I know what sheets I would buy. And like, I love I know exactly how they feel. And like, I know, I know them. And I haven't allowed myself to do that yet. And then it's always curious, like, why they're Why have I stopped there? Because as we know, I've invested money on all sorts of other things. Curious? Yeah. So this is where the permission is that you're examining yourself. And you're like, oh, where's their block? Why? Why is your block there? versus something else? No idea. Yeah. And then the other one, I wouldn't say is like, have fresh flowers delivered?
Andrea Enright 36:06
When I'm home? Oh, yeah. I know, you can't do that for yourself. I do. Yeah. And I get as a gift from my family. And oh, my gosh, flowers make me so happy to be in the house. That is definitely a little and it's like, it feels like a luxury. It's, you know, definitely expensive. And they don't always last the whole month, of course. But it's like bringing a little bit of the outside in to for me, which is really important. Especially because I think I go through phases of not good enough getting enough nature. Maybe you've heard you mention that too. Like that, like wish you beat outside more.
Janelle Orion 36:37
Right. And I would also say that when I've had for different events here, I've asked people to bring bouquet of flowers. So then there's been times where like, there's like, like eight bouquets of flowers here, and it feels so great. Right?
Andrea Enright 36:50
And I'm just gonna talk about then what haven't I given myself permission to do? More vulnerability? That should be fun, is as I wrote up all of these the stuff that I haven't given my physician, myself permission to do? It all has to do with spending money. Always. I mean, literally, like, all the things that I want to do. Now, that's too expensive. So I think it's worth just mentioning that, like, breaking down where that because I think a lot of people that you know, that's come up, obviously, in this conversation, too, are like, Oh, the sheets. We talked about it before your massages, those.
Janelle Orion 37:27
So just to cure it again. Yeah. So you're saying the things that you still have not giving yourself permission to do have to do with money? Correct. Okay, because there's other things that we've given ourselves permission to do that don't have to do with money? Yeah. And both, of course, I
Andrea Enright 37:42
mean, eventually, I bought the travel pillow so that I can sleep on planes, right. But yes, I would say all the things I haven't given myself permission that I thought I've at least in anticipation of this episode was about spending money. Yeah, I would agree with that. For my free shirt. Yours, too. Yeah. So just wonder if that brings up something like, what does that mean? Or the relationship with money? Or is there a way we can shift that? I'm not sure.
Janelle Orion 38:02
And even as I just pointed out, the relationship with money, it's not even consistent, right? Because I am in debt, I am spending money on certain things, someone else, right. And I'm like, Oh, this isn't alignment, for whatever reason, sheets and towels are two areas that I'm like, Oh, they're not in alignment for me to buy expensive ones, which is why I was so grateful when my friend Gabby bought me for my birthday. And so I chose him and I get to receive a gift of that, too. So anyway, I really
Andrea Enright 38:34
think like what we now then have to say is Okay, is there something that bravehearts that you have not given yourself permission to do? And how can they get there? Like what's the what's the journey and getting from no permission to a permission slip? Well, I think maybe
Janelle Orion 38:47
this is homework, write down the list, do what we just did. I mean, this is what we wrote this down. Yeah. Write a list down of all the ways you've given yourself permission, aka small ways that you have broken a societal norm. Yep. Yeah, that societal norm, like pertains to yourself. And then where else? Haven't you given yourself permission? Yeah, it's really just like, yeah, and then bringing the awareness to it. And then that allows with the awareness to bring the question of like, Oh, can I can I give myself permission to this thing that I thought that I couldn't? Yeah. And
Andrea Enright 39:19
I think this, this just has such a wide range. Like, I keep thinking of other situations, as we've been talking, like, I have a friend who was like, Oh, my gosh, we've been going on vacation with my sister for like, 15 years, because that's what we do every year. And I just feel like I have to do it. And I'm just like, well, what if you gave yourself permission to go on vacation with just your family? And she's like, Oh, we can't you know, but she's like, Wait, why can't I do that? You know, so this is just it's such a random thing like that. That comes up and I do think when you give yourself those small permission, they lead to bigger permissions. And I do think
Janelle Orion 39:57
like, as the stepping stone is The reason why we're still doing something is simply because we haven't thought about it. Right? Like with the whole, like waxing, yeah, I was like, Oh, I've just been doing the thing. I've just been doing a thing since I was 16. And I have not reflected on it again, I think when we do reflect on it, in our lives, we make different decisions. So this is where the stepping stone is, is like, Oh, give yourself a chance to reflect and you might come up with a different answer than you did the last time you thought about it consciously. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 40:27
I think it's just this. It's that and then it's, what did you What were you ingrained with culturally, that you are a family looking at it? And you're like, Nope, I still have to do that. Nope, I still have to do that. What is it about? Is it about the way you look, the way you parent, the way you marriage, the way you succeed? The way you garden the way you walk? Like the way you dream? Yeah.
Janelle Orion 40:50
You had one of those this morning. So
Andrea Enright 40:52
that's your homework. We love you get burnable vulnerable, give yourself permission.
Janelle Orion 40:58
And the whole idea here is that someone told you something could have been a parent, it could have been a sister, it could have been a sibling, whatever. Like they were mad. They didn't have bad intentions, right? But they were taught something to and so that somehow you've been taught something that may be your get quiet. You go inside and you listen, you're like oh, that's actually not my truth. My
Andrea Enright 41:25
job. See you later. Love you. Bye. Do you need permission to be human? You got it. Listen,
Janelle Orion 41:33
subscribe and review on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about us at permission to be human dot life.