Ep 105: Part 5/12, Love & Honesty from a Woman on a Traditional Catholic Journey: How to Build a Relationship with God Series

In this soft-spoken episode of Permission to Be Human, Janelle and Andrea sit down with the earnest Melissa Detwiller for a conversation about Catholicism and how she finds guidance in God every day. Melissa opens up about her faith journey—how God helped her navigate a lonely path as an immigrant at 14, and continues to keep her centered amidst her community and family of five. Together, they dive into her consistent practices of faith, her preference for religion over spirituality and the quiet rebellion of choosing love in a loud, divided world. This episode isn’t just about belief—it’s about belonging, becoming, and being brave enough to listen when God speaks in whispers. You’ll hear:

-Why faith doesn’t need a formula--you can meet God in the mundane or the mess

-A reminder that YouTube is a totally viable resource for sermon

-How God became a “person” to Melissa

-Where she ends and God begins

-The power of shared beliefs, especially in today’s world.

-Why Melissa’s relationship is practice and process rather than performance

-A redefinition of “confession” and how it might be the meaning of life

TRANSCRIPT:

Janelle Orion 0:00

Janelle, struggling to discuss sex and intimacy with your partner, not feeling met, seen or heard in your relationships. I'm Janelle And I'm Andrea. We're two midlife Mavericks sharing our own experiences, messy, AF and no regrets with marriage, divorce, polyamory and pleasure. We've learned that when you're brave enough to figure out what you want and ask for it, with partners, friends, family and most importantly, yourself, you'll feel more alive and free question everything, especially your mother's advice. There's no rom com formula for this. But don't panic. Being alone matters, honey, I can't miss you if you don't leave, what if your breakup could be your breakthrough? Our podcast is for brave hearts. Anyone who seeks or has found the courage to confront their fears and limiting beliefs about breaking societal norms in the spirit of finding their truth.

Janelle Orion 0:54

If you're seeking permission to be brave in your relationships and want to feel left alone along the way we got you.

Janelle Orion 1:08

Okay, brave hearts, I feel like my heart is still so like soft right now, we just interviewed my cousin Melissa, who is a devout Catholic, and really expresses how God's heart moves through her heart. And I really, really respect the courage it took for her to get on this podcast. As she said, This is so outside of her comfort zone. But to like, let's like, be in the presence of her own faith was really like, almost like a salve to my to my being.

Andrea Enright 1:46

Yeah, I'm amazed at what came through and how much resonance it has for me, not a Catholic anymore. You know, it felt like there was somewhat of a reframe around Christianity and Catholicism also an even greater understanding of how we're all moving toward the same love. And I just I loved how she described building a relationship with how she sees God, how she sees spirit.

Janelle Orion 2:14

Okay. Brave hearts, enjoy.

Janelle Orion 2:22

Hi, brave hearts. Welcome back to permission to be human. I'm Janelle, and I'm Andrea, and welcome to our latest episode of this season's theme of building a relationship with

Andrea Enright 2:36

God. Today, we're going to be interviewing janelle's cousin, think, close in the family here, which I'm really excited about. Melissa dettwiller lives on a lake in New Hampshire. Sounds so lovely. She's a mom to four adult children. Enjoys crafting, eating ice cream and running a women's Bible study. Melissa, welcome to permission to be human.

Melissa Detwiller 2:57

Thank you.

Janelle Orion 2:59

We are excited to have you here and Bravehearts, as you have heard, Andrew and I each talk, we know that this topic is vulnerable, it's edgy, and we're so appreciative of our guests who are willing to share this internal journey as best as they can and this relationship so we hold we're holding Melissa with so much love and grace as we begin this conversation. And our first question Melissa is, how did you first start building a relationship with God or spirit, and also just what do you call this? Right? Everyone calls it different, something different, yeah,

Melissa Detwiller 3:39

well, I call it God. To me, God is a person. So from the time I was a little girl, you know, in my family, we practice the faith, the Catholic faith, but I would think that it was when I was about 14, when I was in high school, I had moved from Brazil to the United States, I went to a Catholic High School, and they had a little chapel d and I felt very different and very alone when I moved, I so, I think I started seeking God more like to console me to kind of like help me through my tough times. And so they had daily mass. And whenever I had a free period and it coincided with daily Mass, I would go to mass or just go and sit in the chapel for a few minutes, just to kind of get myself centered again. And so I think that's probably when it first started.

Janelle Orion 4:58

So Thank. You for sharing that. So I love hearing this because obviously I know you're from Brazil. What I'm hearing is that, you know, as a 14 year old, that's a freshman, I'm guessing right, freshman year, it's already such a hard time in young people's lives, and here you are in a new country. I'm guessing like you know you are probably already spoke English, but that there was a big cultural difference, and that what I'm hearing is that God was your friend.

Melissa Detwiller 5:26

Yeah, he definitely was my friend. He's always available to all of us, but I felt like he was the only one who really knew what I was going through, and so he was the one I sought out at the time. Like I said, I was 14 in you already feel very different. You know, your your whole way of being is changing, and I didn't really have anybody to to to confide, you know, my fears, and so he was there for me. So in college, that's, you know, a different transition. You know, by then, I had, you know, made some friends, but in high school, but now it was starting all over again with people I didn't know at all, and I went to a Catholic College, and they also, you know, had a couple of chapels, and they had regular masses and and that's where I went once again to kind of get myself centered when I was struggling with the different parts of being away from home for the first time.

Janelle Orion 6:48

I love that you keep saying it helped you get centered. Can you describe what centered felt like for you?

Melissa Detwiller 6:55

I think it's a way of feeling that you're okay and that you have somebody that has your back, giving you hope that you can, like kind of do this, you can do this, and that he'll be there for you regardless of what comes up. Yeah, I don't know if I've ever really thought about what centered is, but I think that's probably as close as I can get to an explanation.

Janelle Orion 7:23

I use the word centered all the time. So it's like, I'm like, Oh, I What do I do to get back to center? So I relate to the word, but I also don't know if I've ever described it exactly. So thank you. I hear you saying, like, you know God as a person, you're referring to it as a hymn. Can you just explain a little bit more about, yeah, your feelings or impressions or how you think about

Melissa Detwiller 7:47

God? To me, he's like a father figure, right? And I you know God. He is everything. He is our Creator, and we interpret God. God is a man, right? Because his son came and became man. So I think we as humans, we have to identify them with what we know ourselves. And I think we identify him as a father figure, as a man, as somebody who is guiding us through life and wants what's best for us, and he is goodness, and he knows better than we do what's best for us, but he's he has given us the gift of free will. So he wants us to choose love, but we don't always choose love, but that is the ultimate goal, is to to love the way he loves unconditionally, so that we can be forever united with Him, because when we don't choose love, that kind of separates us from God a little bit. And the more we choose the opposite of love, the further we get from God. So the more often we choose love, the closer we get to him, and the better we get to know him. It's like a friend. When you spend time with a friend, the more time you you're with that person, you get to know them better, and you kind of you want to do what's pleasing to them, because, you know, you think of them as as such a great person that you don't want to do anything that would jeopardize your friendship.

Janelle Orion 9:53

I'm going to pause you there, because there's a lot of richness there to explore. Yeah. I'm curious, when you say choosing love, what are ways that you choose love when you know that you can choose something different, but you're going to choose love instead?

Melissa Detwiller 10:13

Well, choosing love is being kind to your neighbor, like not always thinking about self, that there's more to life than just yourself. We were put on this earth to be part of like a community, and we're supposed to help each other out living life as best that we can. And we all have different gifts, and so sometimes people don't know what their gifts are, but when you know what your gifts are, use them to help others, and in turn, others will do the same for you, and it'll just create a better community, A Better Life, A Better stance, you know, just things will be run smoother when people are looking out for each other.

Andrea Enright 11:07

Melissa, you mentioned that God wants us to move toward love. Do you feel like you're getting this message from him specifically as you pray or on a regular basis? Or is this more from texts you've read. How have you received that message?

Melissa Detwiller 11:25

I pray regularly. I pray every day. I read the Bible, I read texts, I listen to podcasts, I do all those things, but I think the best way to get the message is by spending quiet time with God and trying to have a conversation with him. I think a lot of times I'm guilty of this. I'm looking for for input from all of these methods, books, podcasts and things like that. And you're, you're really what you're listening to, a lot of times is opinions from other people. But if you really want to hear what God is telling you, you really need to be quiet. And because God is, is not somebody who is shouts his message, he tells you in his whispers. And there's like movements in your heart that that make you believe that what you're doing is the right thing. So it's, kind of and that's the thing, the more you do it, the more you pick up on what he's saying.

Janelle Orion 12:50

Mostly you haven't listened to my episode yet because it hasn't been released. But what I'm really hearing, and what I believe is true is that there's a similarity to how what you just described. When Andrew asked me that question, I was like, oh, I need to I go anyway. It's you need to be alone. You need to be able to listen. And things are very loud, and like, you know, your intuition, or the divine message, which is how I refer to it, is, like, very quiet, and it takes, like, practice and discernment. So as you're talking, even though my path is different, even though you and I were both raised Catholic and come from the same family, like my finding of God didn't come through the Catholic Church, but as I'm listening to you, what I feel is so beautiful, and I feel like part of the reason why you and I even connected to for you to be on this podcast, is because our spirituality and our faith and our belief kind of has led us to a similar outlook, even though the path has been different. And I can just feel in you right, like your faith, and you're talking about love of like, of this, like good, bringing goodness into the world, like be and being a beacon of goodness for others.

Melissa Detwiller 14:07

That's what I hope. I don't think I'm always that person, but that's what I strive for. You know, that's what I I would like to be. I because I think God uses us as instruments to get to other people, and I hope that he can use me to reach others, and that's probably why I think I agree to do this podcast, because it's totally out of my comfort zone, but if it can help somebody else in some way to to be open to listening to God, then then, you know, God will use me to do that in some

Andrea Enright 14:51

way beautiful. I love this. It's so awesome. And I just want to point out that. You mentioned prayer, and you mentioned being quiet and listening. Janelle, you reflected that that's something you also do as part of a spiritual practice. And we also, previously, in this series, we interviewed a rabbi priestess, and she also said the same thing, right? Pray and listen. The act of prayer itself is presence, and when you listen, then you'll hear but so often, she said, you know, people pray and they're just like, Okay, hope it comes right? And they're going back to the dishes, right? So I just, I love that there's already the motion of so many rivers flowing into the same ocean,

Melissa Detwiller 15:41

and they think, you know what you're saying. What you know what I hear, is you're interviewing all of us who are of different beliefs, in a way, but we're all we're all seeking truth. We all are seeking the same thing, but so often in our society, we focus on our differences instead of focusing on our similarities. And I think life would be much better for everyone if we, you know, focused on our similarities, and try to work together instead of alienating each other, because, you know, you don't think exactly like I do. And God made us unique for a reason. Each one of us is is a unrepeatable miracle. So each one of us has value in some way, and so we need to take advantage of each person's uniqueness and celebrate

Janelle Orion 16:52

it. Do you consider a relationship with God different than a relationship with self?

Melissa Detwiller 16:59

Yes, God is separate than I am. You know, he's, he created me, but he wants a relationship with me. And so it's like, it's almost like a marriage. You know, when two people come together as a couple, as a married couple, you become one, but you're still separate. So I think that's kind of like the relationship with God and me, like he is more than I could ever be, but because He is the Almighty where but he still looks at me as an important creation that he wants a relationship with.

Janelle Orion 17:47

When you said that coming together, what I what I heard there, is that in coming together, though, you are

Melissa Detwiller 17:56

one, it's kind of like, almost like your heart became, becomes the same as God's heart, because his heart is love. So the stronger your relationship with God, that your heart becomes more equal to his heart, the closer your relationship is. So then you're the way you think, is as one in the way you act is as one because you want to do things the way he would do it, or that he would think.

Janelle Orion 18:34

Or what I'm hearing there is, if it's more from the heart led, right? If you're like, Oh, you're following your heart, you're following God's heart, and in that way, that's the oneness,

Melissa Detwiller 18:48

yeah, because what we want to do, what I want to be, is is more like Him, because He is everything. He is goodness itself. You know, we are all created good, but as a human being, we sometimes think more of ourselves than of a greater good. So the less we focus on ourselves and more we focus on God, the relationship with God, then our heart becomes more like His.

Janelle Orion 19:24

I appreciate your description. You're describing it differently than I certainly I think of it, but I can feel the resonance of what you're of what you're saying.

Andrea Enright 19:36

This is fascinating, because I was raised Catholic and definitely heard this. Heard about God every Sunday for many, many years. And I certainly don't remember hearing it described this way ever. So I think it's, it's sort of a an it's like helping me Look at, look at God. And. Knew,

Melissa Detwiller 20:00

yeah, and I think there was so much to know about God that it's it's almost impossible to know everything about God. And, you know, like I said, I from birth, I was Catholic, but it wasn't until adulthood, that I really started appreciating who God really was, and the more I know him, the more I realize how little I know him, because he's just so vast.

Janelle Orion 20:37

Have there been times where your faith has been tested.

Melissa Detwiller 20:42

Oh yes, I'm sure. I mean, it's tested on a daily basis. I would say, you know, I want to say that none of us are perfect, and I, by no means, AM, and God knows that I that I'm not, and that's part of why there's the the Sacrament of Reconciliation, which, years ago, was called confession. So I think they changed the name because when you hear the word confession, there's, like, more of a negative connotation to it, where reconciliation is like, kind of like admitting what you did wrong so that you can repair the bond with God and be close to him again. So that's a big reason to go to reconciliation is because, you know, we all have little incident incidences that we could have acted in a better way. You know, even like when you're driving your traffic, you're, yeah, you know, getting angry at the person next to you, or why did he do that? Or, you know, within your family, you know, why are you saying this this way, and you lose your temper. And so I need to remind myself of what is important. And so I go to Mass on a regular basis, not just on Sundays, which is the requirement, but but I also go to, I try to go as often as I can during the week, because I I need to be fed by his word and by his body, by, you know, taking the Eucharist, and also taking part of, you know, the Sacrament of Reconciliation, as often as I can, because I know I need to repair my relationship on a regular basis, because I don't always choose love.

Janelle Orion 22:49

You know, in season three, Andrea and I, it was a different topic altogether, and it was how to talk to your partner about sex and intimacy. And there was, it was a 12 part series, and the Capstone one was we talked to a therapist who has called the repair process. And it felt like that was a summary. That was the whole point of everything was being in a relationship with another is knowing how to repair. And I've not heard of the new the new branding of sacrament of reconciliation. And I think it's so beautiful, like it feels so true given like my experience of being in relationship to another of, how do you reconcile? How do you repair? I'm fascinated by what you're sharing, and it feels really true in my heart that that's such a necessary part of being in relationship. In this case, it's a relationship with God,

Andrea Enright 23:45

yeah, and reconciliation is so much better than confession. Like, it's just a total reframe for me, yeah, that was just, like, a necessary, feel like I just got nothing out of confession. I'm just, like, just supposed to go tell like, I would do it sort of as a child, and didn't continue to do that, but was basically just like, Okay, what did I do wrong? This week, I'm supposed to tell the priest, that's it, which is a much more one dimensional way to think about it.

Melissa Detwiller 24:14

Yeah. Yeah.

Janelle Orion 24:16

Melissa, how does having a relationship with God help you find peace amidst all the suffering that is in the world.

Melissa Detwiller 24:24

God gives me hope because I know that he can bring good out of bad situations. So knowing that gives me hope for the future, you know, for for all of us, I think it's if I didn't think that way, it'd be a really depressing life, because life is hard. You know, there's people let you down on a regular basis, and you let other people down on a regular basis, but. If you keep working toward love and and believing that God can bring good out of bad things, then it helps you, on a regular basis, on a daily basis.

Janelle Orion 25:22

Does a relationship with Spirit give you greater capacity to directly support like the less fortunate? And if so, how

Melissa Detwiller 25:33

well having a relationship with God definitely helps me to to want to support the less fortunate, whatever that may be, because God wants us to take care of each other. And he, you know, if you read in the Bible, there's plenty of stories about him, you know, helping the less fortunate in the you know, and that was part of why he was persecuted, was because he was relating to the the less popular crowd, the so it makes you realize that everybody has dignity, and everybody is entitled to love, And everybody has a story. And so if we take the time to listen, that we will be more willing to help them in some way, whether it be monetarily or, you know, just by spending time with somebody to listen to somebody who's lonely or and it could be anybody from children all the way up to know the elderly. You know

Janelle Orion 26:47

what I heard in that right when we started out by saying, oh, like listening to God requires a going in and being quiet. And then what you just said, Here was one of the ways to essentially do God's work and help those less fortunate is just to listen to other stories.

Melissa Detwiller 27:09

Yeah, I was listening to this priest one time, and he was telling the story that he was in New York City, and he was going around with another priest, and they came across this man, and they started talking, and next thing, you know, they're there, like, for an hour and a half. And so he, he says to the other priest, like, you know, my gosh, you know, I didn't realize this was we were gonna get, I forget how he put it, like get wrapped up into this conversation for so long, is like, you know, and the other priest said, well, sometimes what somebody else needs is just a listening ear. They don't need you to fix their problem. They just need you to listen. And to me, that kind of struck me as like, so true. You know, sometimes we we think that we can put band aids all over the place, but sometimes you just need to hear, hear what they're saying.

Janelle Orion 28:14

What are some of the ways that you are out in the community and support the community,

Melissa Detwiller 28:21

especially now that my kids are out of school, are not home anymore, I started getting more involved with my church, and one of the ministries that I'm in charge of is what they call The Giving Tree, which is At Christmas time I talked to a couple of the like charities in the area and asked them to give me a list of Christmas wishes for like families in need or children and whatever, and they give me the list, and then I put it together, make tags, put them in the church, and then the parishioners each buy a gift that's on the tag, and then we drop it off at at the different communities that I've contacted. And that's like one of the ways I also like you mentioned at the beginning of the the podcast, that I I run a Bible study, or I facilitate a Bible study, usually with another person, and that's been fruitful for myself, just as much as the women who are there. You know? I mean, I've learned a lot through these Bible studies, but I also got to meet a whole new group of women that I probably have been seeing from afar for years. And people tend to go into church, sit down, listen and walk out, but doing these ministries. Ways, makes you more part of the community, and you get to know each other much better, and it makes for like, a more loving, you know, atmosphere. So and then, you know, I also decorate the church. You know, I'm one of a couple of people who changes all the arrangements for the different seasons in the church? So those are just some of the things I do. You

Janelle Orion 30:31

kind of started to go into this, but I'm curious, how does your relationship with God impact your other relationships?

Melissa Detwiller 30:41

Well, you know that God wants you to be loving. So sometimes people in your family get on your nerves, and you might want to, you know, get annoyed. And so it helps you to reframe how you look at another person and then remember that the fact that we're all unique, and because somebody's not doing things my way doesn't mean that what they're doing is wrong. It's just a different way of doing things, and sometimes it can be easy to forget. And so being close to God kind of brings me back to that reality that everybody deserves respect, and so through respecting each other, you can love each other better.

Janelle Orion 31:32

Do you find you know when we when we first talked about this and and I acknowledge it that like, oh, talking about this topic, can can feel vulnerable, right? And you're like, Oh, you're willing to be brave and have the courage to speak on the podcast, because you're like, Oh, if it can help one other person, right? And that's like, find a relationship with God or or whatever it is. And Angie and I, you know, our podcast is called permission to be human, because we find that it's not sometimes we just need to be exposed to something, a different way of being, a different way of thinking. So it gives us permission to think or be different. If you're talking to brave hearts today, like, what is something that, if you want to describe how you are, that they can take away with and be like, Oh, this is how this woman named Melissa, right? This is how her faith expresses, and you've talked about it, but like, on a personal level, like, on a daily basis, like, how, like, what would be Andrea? What's the word here? Like, a, kind of, just like a, like, a little like, snapshot of how someone could get started,

Andrea Enright 32:45

yeah, how would you suggest someone find their deepest belief or spiritual path? What would be the first step they would take?

Melissa Detwiller 32:51

I mean, start a conversation with God, you know, like, talk to him like he's a real person, and then give him a chance to answer. I think that's one way so praying. And some people like say, Oh no, I don't know where to start. I don't know how to pray. There's no right or wrong formula. Like I said, it started off as a conversation, if you want. You know, now, in this digital age, you can listen to sermons. You don't if you're not ready to enter a church, but you can let you listen to the Gospel, listen to a priest, you know, do a sermon. There's plenty of podcasts of different priests, you know, Bishop Baron Father Mike Schmidt. They are two phenomenal priests that do great sermons to listen to, and then maybe eventually dare to walk into church and even sit there, you know, I go to an adoration, which is when the body of Christ is put in a monstrance. And you can sit there with the presence of God, and then just sit there and kind of like, be quiet. You don't even have to say something. You know, he like when I've gone through like struggles, one of the things that has helped me is, you know, sometimes you don't even know what to think or how to handle something, or even what to ask for. Just sitting in the presence of Christ, somehow, through the mystery of God, it gives you this peaceful feeling, and then all of a sudden, you're like, I can handle this. It's nothing that you can really pinpoint and say he did this for me, but it's just this overwhelming peacefulness that he's with you and He will always be with you. But of course, there's plenty of books and podcasts and things like that. Just pick one area that that you think that that would be helpful to you and and start listening. One thing I wanted to say that I haven't said is that when you talk to God, he's not like a slot machine that you go and you say, I want this, you know, change this, do this for me. I need this. He wants to hear about the good things in your life as well as what you're struggling with. So treat him as a friend like that you talk to on a regular basis, where you tell them the good things that are going on, as well as what's not going on, not so good. You know, there's a balance. He doesn't want you to only come to him when you're struggling. But of course, if that's where you have to begin, begin there. But talk to him at all times, you know, on a regular basis about good and bad. He wants to hear it.

Andrea Enright 36:36

Yeah, my recollections of praying really, really goes back to, like, there's like, two parts. Here's what I want. I swear, this is the last thing I'll ask for ever. Please, just give this to me. That's it. Please. Can I pass this final please? Can this boy like me, that's really the memory of it is sort of going to him in trouble, and asking that rather than like, building that relationship over time. So yeah, it definitely makes sense that it's just a more comprehensive or holistic approach to having that relationship with spirit. Melissa, do you feel comfortable talking about your relationship with God in society, in small circles, in your family, is that something that you feel you can be open about?

Melissa Detwiller 37:28

I would say not completely. It depends who you're with. A lot of times, I think a lot of people don't want to hear what I believe or how I think, and I think that's why community is really important, because then it's a safe place that you can discuss and Question and talk about and help each other out. I am not working outside of the home, so I'm not in like an office situation, but I have friends that are and, you know, when they mention, God, you know, people kind of look at them like, Oh, here she goes, You know, it's like, it's kind of unfortunate, because I think sometimes they need to hear from God, and maybe we're the ones that are, the ones that are supposed to help them through something. But you can tell, in the in a in a conversation, who is open to hearing what you want you're saying, and and who is just kind of like rolling their eyes or thinking, Oh, here, you know, here she goes again. So I don't feel that I can say everything that I want to say in public because, and maybe that's part of the reason I was apprehensive about doing this podcast, is that some people might and it shouldn't matter, you know what they think, but You know, I'm human, so it does matter to me, but I try not to. I I'm I've gotten better at accepting that some people are just not there yet. And maybe the whole thing about the mustard seed, sometimes you just have to drop that seed, and maybe at that moment, they're not open, and maybe that will just get in a crack that little by little will grow and will make them seek God again.

Janelle Orion 39:56

Yeah, what comes up for me is. Yeah, just holding on, as you said, like, just everyone's on their own journey, and also realizing that, like, I think God does speak. This is why there's all these different faiths and different religions and different pathways to God. My dad and I have had these long conversations about, like his path wasn't my path, but he can feel appreciative that I finally got to where he was hoping I was going to get to. And that's what I think a lot of us were told at different times, different people, different religions. Oh, it has to be this way, and it has to look a certain way. And that's what God means. And what I've heard you describe so beautifully, right? Is that like God is love. God has His heart that like and by having a conversation and building us relationship, this two way relationship, if that's the goal, that can look so many different ways. But I think a lot of people haven't been given that permission. They've been told it has to look a very specific way in order to have a relationship with God.

Melissa Detwiller 41:04

Yeah, well, I also think that the whole thing about I'm spiritual, but I'm not religious. I think religion, there is a purpose for religion. I think God put these kind of parameters to help people get there, get to him in a in a safer way. Let's say, I'm not sure if that's the right word, but, but he, he's given us these guidelines, and these guidelines, if we follow them, will be the most direct path to him. But like you said, we are all different, and sometimes some of us have a hard time staying within these path lines, and so it takes us a little longer to get there. But you know, going to Mass and participating in a religion I believe is important because then it gives you, it keeps, keeps you on a track to continue searching for this truth. And we need reminders. You know, we forget, and so that's why I think God knows that we can forget very easily. So that's why he has established a church, so that we can go and get re centered again, and then like, oh, okay, that's right, I'm supposed to, like, continue on this path, because this will lead me to him. So that's, you know what I think beautiful.

Janelle Orion 42:45

Thank you, Melissa. Thank you so much for sharing your sharing your heart with us in its expression of God to the best of your ability and being willing to, yeah, share with our brave hearts your journey and what God means to you.

Melissa Detwiller 43:01

Thank you for having me. Thank

Andrea Enright 43:03

you so much for coming on.

Janelle Orion 43:11

Hey, Bravehearts, looking for permission. Work with us. Andrea offers permission coaching, and Janelle offers erotic wellness sessions. Follow us on Instagram, meet us in real life at permission to be human workshops in Denver. Subscribe to our newsletter. Do all this and more at our website, permission to be human. Dot live. You.