Why the fuck do we think we should be able to read our partners minds in bed? It’s total bullshit, so let’s stop the madness. Janelle and Andrea bust myths about sex and pleasure and tell us why there’s nothing wrong with simply telling our partner (of 2 months or 20 years) what feels good right now! There’s a nod to Harry & Sally, Danielle Steele, Cosmo, the RBDSM conversation and good old Namaste. You’ll hear:
--Why you should bring curiosity to bed
--A story about an overzealous kisser
--Dish about faking orgasms
--How your courage will give your partner courage
--Because I liked something one time doesn’t mean……
--Why attunement and attention matter
TRANSCRIPT:
Andrea Enright 0:01
Hi Friend Hi friend enter the brave hearts listening out there welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea
Janelle Orion 0:08
and I'm Janelle.
Andrea Enright 0:08
Get ready for some real time relationship whoo and wisdom from the frontlines with occasional tantrums and tears about how breaking rules blurring boundaries and tossing tradition can be catalysts for finding your truth.
Janelle Orion 0:20
Let's debunk the fairytales we were told as children and create a new map for life. Yes, Disney can go fuck it. If you're seeking permission to choose your own path, freedom is the new afterward people and want to feel less alone along the way. We got you.
Andrea Enright 0:36
Please note, this is our side of the story. Our partners and metaphors have their own individual experiences, and we do not speak for them.
Hi, Jenna. Hey, Andrea.
This episode of permission to be human. We'll begin with a story to now take it away.
Janelle Orion 1:07
Okay. I went out on a date a couple of months ago with a lovely man. We totally connected on the mind and spiritual level. He's a practicing Zen Buddhist for like 40 years or something. And we had the our BDSM A Conversation, which took us hours. And it was so intimate and so connecting, and this was on our second date. And so we had our like, it was just a really like juicy like, oh, yeah, things feel like the moment. And then he kissed me.
And then he kissed me. Yes.
And what it felt like was that he was eating me. Literally, in that his tongue was like, all the way in the back of the my mouth, like kind to like, lick the inside of my mouth and the dongle in the back. And then he put his entire mouth over my lips. And at one moment, I was like, I could feel his like teeth appear. And I was like,
I don't like that. Okay, okay, right. So, so where does that go? So I just had to sort of have to stop the story a couple of times, I think. Okay, so it felt like he was eating you. And you'd never get some before? Nope. And
but the really the feeling that I got was that he was parched. Like, while his mind and his spirit were relaxed. Something in his body was saying I want more. I want I'm dying of thirst. I'm dying for sensual touch in connection and physical intimacy and the energy of his physical body when presented with the opportunity for physical touch, which is like oh, yes, yes. Yes. Like, I need like I grasping.
Andrea Enright 3:23
Yeah. Okay. I think I want to ask you if, if you ever have kissed like that with someone, or in that, let's say region of aggression and tongue and mouth over yours. How do you ever like kissing like that? Do sometimes, like independent?
Janelle Orion 3:42
Oh, okay. Interesting question.
Like, oh, no, we have to dissect this now. I just really Yes.
What I feel like is yes. When there's attunement, if we're both doing that, right, if if our energies are matching each
Andrea Enright 4:03
other, and you've already tested it out,
Janelle Orion 4:05
right, this was like a first kiss. Right? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. But what I would also say is that I feel like I was able to observe and notice all that because I believe I actually also used to feel like he did. Okay. parched. Yeah. In grasping like it because I remember during our marriage at one point, when my husband my husband told me he didn't like the way I kissed.
Andrea Enright 4:37
That's hard. Yeah, super hard. Yeah.
Janelle Orion 4:43
And he also told me, it felt like I was eating him. Hmm. And so I think because I have that framework, right? Like that experience in my, my past experience, that I'm like, Uh oh, I think this is the energy. I don't believe I kissed the way that this man was kissing me. If I did or did it doesn't really matter because really, it's the energy. And for a really long time, possibly possibly lifetimes. I think I have not had my sexual physical needs met the way that my body and soul was craving.
Andrea Enright 5:28
Build. Okay, so you recognize yourself in him? Yes. A past version of me. Yeah. Mm hmm.
Janelle Orion 5:37
And that it was, like I said, like, like, possibly lifetimes of me not having my needs met. And I remember at a point last year after we were divorced, and I had had several lovers, and after spending years learning about my pleasure and my intimacy, that I was comfortable stating my desires, my fears, my boundaries, right that I suddenly felt, I actually distinctly remember the moment but I, I felt a shift inside me. Where suddenly, I was like, Oh, I'm at baseline. Not that I'm overflowing. But I'm at baseline where I can breathe, that my physical, intimate needs have been met, to a way that I am no longer grasping. I am actually in choice.
Andrea Enright 6:37
helped me to set up dissecting verbs, right. Grasping versus choosing and short choice.
Janelle Orion 6:42
So grasping, meaning, like, like, the energy was like Drake was driving me like I was I was being run by the energy, versus being like, oh, no, like, I'm like, I'm not thirsty anymore. I'm not purchasing more. Do I want to have water? Or do I want to have electrolytes? Do I want to have you know, this? Or that? Instead of being like, give it to me?
Andrea Enright 7:07
Got it. Okay, helpful. Okay. Wow. Okay, so So what did you do?
Janelle Orion 7:16
I mean, I mean, I
guess it's more about how are you feeling in the marriage? But like, What the hell did you do in that moment? Do you stop kissing? And do you ever see him again? We stress how would felt we kept
kissing. I was really in this like, really curious state of observation, where I was like, I'm present. And I'm observing at the same time. So we, the night continue, I did tell him I didn't like it. When I could feel the teeth, but then we did where we didn't see each other again, after that evening. Okay.
Andrea Enright 7:47
So, back to you saying your choice, though. You said, I think you meant that. You know, what brings you pleasure? Yes,
Janelle Orion 7:57
I see. In short, yeah, that was probably not my best word. That interest meaning like, Oh, I'm coming from a centered place. Being able to attune my energy. Yeah. To what feels true for me in the moment, right. Whereas before, the energy, which is like, coming out of me, and now I can direct it. I can respond. I can feel I can dance with it. Yeah.
Andrea Enright 8:30
That's beautiful. Because I've heard you say, by becoming a better lover to yourself, you can become a better lever to others. So what does that what does that mean?
Janelle Orion 8:46
Growing up, I had zero conversations. I wasn't taught any skills or education about my pleasure, or sex. Other than from my peers, which, you know, you've Well, to some degree, but you know, here's gives me a good i teenagers. Yeah, trying to figure stuff out, right. Um, so my education came from Cosmo, from romcoms. Reading Danielle Steel. Yeah. I didn't watch porn. But I know a lot of people that you know, that do and that's the main source of their education. And what I inferred from what I was learning was that I needed to learn how to give a good blow job with the ultimate goal is how do I make him come? How do I make him orgasm? Yeah. Right. How like being a good lover means the other person is satisfied.
Andrea Enright 9:34
Yeah, just so classic. There's so many things like this. Yes. It's all about every make everybody else feel comfortable in the room. Yes. Be happy. Be polite to the company. Like,
Janelle Orion 9:46
it's very funny analogy for what we're talking about fit. Yeah, it's really true, though.
Andrea Enright 9:49
Like, it is. It is a common metaphor. For me. It's like take care of everyone else. And make sure you build a relationship with everyone else. What that relationship with myself, says what you're doing now Okay, yes. So that's what that was your impression was about the other person. Right. And being a good lover was about like, the other person. Yep. And what I absolutely did not learn was how to give myself an orgasm. Right?
Janelle Orion 10:14
I did not actually even have my first orgasm until I was 21. I was a senior in college, which is when I started masturbating, which is also very, I don't know, it's very late, but it's, you know, like, it was conditioned. I had who knows, I try when I was 12. Right. And I had read a Cosmo article about something about orgasms and masturbating. And so I tried, and it didn't work. And I thought it was broken. And for the next 10 years, I was like, Oh, I'm just like the girl who doesn't know how to who can't orgasm and who can't masturbate? Oh my gosh. Yeah. And while I had lots of sex in college, and sex was something I wanted a lot. And I love experimenting, and trying new things. And I thoroughly enjoyed it. I also got really good at faking orgasms.
Andrea Enright 11:04
Yeah, tell me how we go into that a little bit. Like, when did you think you're like, oh, oh, I'm not gonna say that or fake it. I wonder how that starts. You know,
Janelle Orion 11:13
I don't even know I don't I don't remember either, by the way. So of course, I've back back to like rom coms right to When Harry Met Sally. Like there's a lot that you can get less lessons on how, of course you are lazy. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 11:24
but it's just became a pattern that you're like, Okay, well, I have to do this because I'm not because it's not gonna work for me. This is what I can accept. And early on for you. Maybe, right? Should I go? This doesn't. This isn't working. Right?
Janelle Orion 11:36
Or this? Also, this isn't. This is also like, this feels really good. And so maybe it's I'm supposed to make more noise or something like this other is that it? Yeah. And yet, I also really liked it. So it was it was I wasn't faking it because it was bad. But I was faking it, because I thought I was supposed to feel something more than I was feeling. Okay. And because I wanted the other guy, I wanted the other person to feel good. Right. I mean, that's definitely definitely part of it. I couldn't admit and articulate that. I didn't
know what I was doing. Or yeah, yeah, that was your was your baseline.
Yeah, and I've told this story before, but I feel it's worth repeating is that a couple of years ago, I met a married couple. And the guy was telling me about how they met. And that I don't know, they were in college. And on the whatever date it was, when he thought they were going to be having sex, that she was like, I know, you think we're gonna be having sex, but instead, you're going to come into the bedroom with me, and you're gonna watch me self pleasure. And so that you know, how I like it.
Andrea Enright 12:49
Yeah, that's such a good story.
Janelle Orion 12:51
I was just like, what, what I mean, I bow down to this woman. And I told her that I'm still literally blown away by it, because it like the confidence and the understanding of her pleasure, and wanting, like, how did she learn to do that? How to not just like how to masturbate because most people figure that on their own on their own, but that that she was supposed to tell the other person, right that she was in charge of her own pleasure. And she was going to teach him so that she got the pleasure she needed.
Andrea Enright 13:23
Yeah, we just think that we're supposed to mind read, right. supposed to know it already. And also being comfortable enough yet to do it in front of him. Yeah, it's I don't have an issue at all. But someone just recently mentioned to me they're like, Yeah, I don't think everyone's comfortable doing that. I
Janelle Orion 13:38
agree. That, yes, yeah. It took me years to be comfortable.
Andrea Enright 13:43
I try to think when No, I think I've been doing that for a long time. But I think the other just a quick thing on that is that what's your experience with guys being like, okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna masturbate, and you're gonna watch. I've never had to go do that. And we've ever heard of that, or, I mean, this is, this is your friends where the woman said it right. But yeah, I feel like it's even more least than just my brief experience on this. It's even more taboo for a guy to sit there and jackoff as you're watching, like, when I when I've run into this a few times, you're like, oh, I don't know if I can do it. Because you're sitting right there. Like, you know what I mean? It's so interesting, but but it makes sense that we're teaching the other person and yet, I guess so.
Janelle Orion 14:27
I've definitely watched many men jackoff in so that isn't the thing. But they it hasn't been with the idea that they're teaching me how to give them pleasure. That's, that's where I was like, Oh, I haven't had this guide. You know, I
Andrea Enright 14:38
see that. Yes. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Fair enough. I see that they see the difference there though. Like, yeah, I guess for me though. That is quite a different experience. Because mine was that Oh, jacking off is something I do by myself in private without anyone watching. And when it was first I'm just like, oh, but I'm like if I'm not doing it, or We're having an experience, right? It's like I'm not doing it right or it's not working. But of course they know, right? So I'm just like, oh, like,
Janelle Orion 15:05
this makes sense to watch and learn. Right? Totally makes sense. But as you're saying this I'm also recognizing, right. So like, in my relationship in my marriage, right? We did. Yeah. Because we stopped being sexually intimate. And yet, so I remember, like, I would I would masturbate, like, as quietly as possible with him asleep. Because hiding it, hiding it. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind
Andrea Enright 15:31
of what I mean. It's the association around the self pleasure slash masturbation ideas is something you do alone, right?
Janelle Orion 15:38
Yeah. Yeah. So. So the first thing in becoming a better letter A lover, is to learn what brings me pleasure. That's like the first step, which is not the step I was taught.
Andrea Enright 15:53
Okay, so how did you learn about your pleasure?
Janelle Orion 15:58
So fast forward to my late 40s, I'm married or polyamorous, my husband and I are not having sex. And I'm starting to learn skills and education about pleasure and intimacy through Tantra retreats. So the first thing I learned was the BDSM, a conversation, which we've talked about learning to name, my desires, fears and boundaries, using my voice is a big part of it. And what I noticed, almost immediately after learning that this conversation skill, is that my nervous system felt so relaxed, when I had that conversation, before being intimate with someone, which helps me enjoy being intimate. Even more. Got it. Yeah. The second thing I learned was the wheel of consent. I learned how it feels to give, I learned how it feels to receive. And what I noticed was that I had more capacity to receive pleasure. When I understood the different ways we can ask for what we want. May I do X, Y, or Z to you? For my pleasure? Will you write do X, Y or Z to me? Right? For my pleasure? Okay. Okay. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 17:15
and we have we have episodes on the RVSM conversation, and that we will consent. And
Janelle Orion 17:20
then the third one is along the way, I figured out what I call my pleasure pillars. We also have a podcast on this one. But for me, it's a relaxed nervous system. For example, having the BDSM a conversation helps my nervous system, relax, trust, trust in myself, my ability to speak my desires and boundaries in real time, and trust in the other person's ability to speak their desires and boundaries in real time.
Andrea Enright 17:50
I think these are like two really big things, like you just said, like, learning your own boundaries, but also trusting someone else to set their boundaries, and not letting the fear of them not setting boundaries. influence what you do. Mm hmm. Well, I'm not going to do that, because he might not like it. mean, it's just like, that's something probably everyone has said, Whatever they're talking about, like making chicken for dinner or touching his leg, right? Like, I'm not gonna do that, because he might not like it. So I just want to address that that like in our society, it's really common to assume someone doesn't have boundaries. Therefore, I'm not going to ask them and make like, make them uncomfortable. Because they might not like it. Well, if they don't like it. They'll they should tell you Yeah, they
Janelle Orion 18:40
don't like it like, yeah, they don't have like, maybe we're assuming they don't have boundaries, which maybe is really, if you put the marriage to ourselves means that maybe we don't know what our own boundaries are. But that also implies that saying, No, I don't like this is a bad thing. Exactly. And if not, yes, like is a huge,
huge, huge gift. And being told no. Yeah. Rejoice in the rejection. redressing
the rejection, freedom and boundaries. Oh, like, we have three areas. This is a yes. This is a no. And this is a no great where all the things we can do in the Yes. There's so much to explore in an area where we're both Yes, yeah.
Andrea Enright 19:18
Yeah. Beautiful. I just, I just I feel like I just keeps coming back to that like in mundane situations and in really significant situations. That we have to be with people who we trust. We have to have our own boundaries, and we have to be with people who we trust to have their own boundaries, right? Yeah. Okay,
Janelle Orion 19:39
I'm in my third pleasure pillar is my laughter. That for me, if I'm in a situation where I can laugh, it doesn't mean this is like a comedy show, but like that, laughter to me is a state of being and my pleasure is enhanced when laughter is available to me.
Andrea Enright 19:56
Right? Okay, so just to review your palate pleasure pillars are Our relaxed nervous system. Trust in yourself and then and your laughter. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Fascinating. And at least what I'm hearing that you figured out what brought you pleasure, and you learned how to ask for it? Yes. Yes. And how I learned that was I was listening to my body,
Janelle Orion 20:28
noticing what I liked, and didn't like. And then responded with my words, to ask for what I liked.
Andrea Enright 20:41
I mean, I think what I say recently went through something where it's like, oh, this, this has worked for me. And kind of a domino effect, where I had the courage to say, You know what, I don't really like that. But I really like this. And it's, of course, nice to just know, contrast it with something you do, like, yes. And then like, five minutes later, someone's like, you know, I really, you know, I just really like it when you do this. And I would never have thought to do that, because it's not my go to places. But it was his favorite place. And so I'm like, Oh, that's so great. Right? And then it was just like a just a contagious. Yes. After that. Yes. Because that was beautiful. Can you touch my knee? Oh, can you grab my arm? Like, just and then then we both know that basically, the barriers were down, and the vulnerability went way up. Yeah, it's beautiful. So it was it was it was fun, right? Yes.
Janelle Orion 21:37
Okay. I love everything that you're saying. Because what I think is part of our perception is that we think our culture has taught us that someone else is supposed to know what we want.
Andrea Enright 21:54
So weird. So weird.
Janelle Orion 21:57
Right? And that being a good lover, is you just know what the other person wants? Yes, I'm having to ask for it.
Yeah, this just comes from salt. Like, oh, if you find your soulmate, then they should know you anyway. That's really the message. I think you know that. You should just have this knowing this connection is deep past thing. That's magical. Okay, that's why yes,
yeah. And so so. So I think we're, like set up for failure. Because besides not actually getting the skills and education when we're younger. The other mindfuck thing we learn, is it actually someone else is actually supposed to know, to read my mind and what I want,
Andrea Enright 22:39
right, I definitely have held on to this and in some ways, like, No, it's my cultural conditioning. It's been my experience. Like, and I guess I don't think it's completely bizarre, or I don't think it's unheard of, to have this sort of natural attunement with some people were like, Oh, he just knew exactly what to do there, huh. You know, like, we just fit together really perfectly, or, like, he touched me and started to kiss me, at the same time with the rhythm that I like, Mm hmm. Right? Because he's attuned to my body. He's touching. He's sensing. He's like, using all of his senses. He's listening. He's watching. So I think a good a good lover and someone who's really attuned to you or your personality, or, you know, you as a person as a human could know that, too. I guess it's I'm saying that's possible. In there. They can coexist? Of course.
Janelle Orion 23:35
Yeah. And I think you're you are getting into. Yeah, once you get into later, which we'll get into this later. Okay. Yes, yeah. So on the topic of mind reading, right, so I have to spend years learning to understand what it is that I want, and then learning to ask for it. Fucking celebration. Right. I am so excited about that. It is a source of my freedom. Right? It feels so good to be oh, I can just tell you like, amazing. Yeah. Well, it was really fascinating because I was with a client the other day, and we were working on intimacy skills. And I mentioned to him, I'd like to be this touch this way, and this way. And he said, I've had so little experience and obviously I'm not good at this because you have to correct me, and to tell and tell me what you like, and how to touch you. And I just paused and was like, Oh, this is how like the circuit like it is like this like circuit continues where where like, failures, like feeds upon itself? Because I paused him and it was like, oh, oh, you think you're supposed to be able to mind read? Of course. Right. That's what you've been conditioned to. So now, the fact that I'm telling you what I like, you're internalizing that to mean that you're a bad lover. Right.
Andrea Enright 25:00
And he was in defense mode,
Janelle Orion 25:02
right? Yeah. And instead, I'm like, I feel like I'm giving you like, what I'm doing is as like, I'm so proud of the fact that I'm able to tell you what it is that I like. And my invitation to him was to recognize that that's like a win win situation. If you decide I'm good lover to me in this moment, is not that your mind reading? What it is my body likes, but if I tell you what my body likes, and then you listen and do that thing, that
Andrea Enright 25:40
that is the when you think such as this is such a simple conversation, and it is so hard. Yes. So vulnerable. Right? That I mean, and he was so he was apologizing, because he didn't know he felt like oh, I should have known just like kind of recapping like. And I remember,
Janelle Orion 25:59
like, and that I should have known that and apologizing for just like putting himself down like, Oh, I'm not I'm obviously not good at this. Right? I'm a bad lover. I'm not skilled.
Andrea Enright 26:09
Yeah. And I think we do this. We do this whenever we're doing something new, right? We don't know it yet. And we're not supposed to know it yet. We're like, oh, sorry. I don't know what I'm doing. Like, but we haven't learned it yet. It's our first time. Right. And it's his first time with you. But
Janelle Orion 26:23
not it's not only that I also I invite people, and the things that I have learned about pleasure intimacy is bring your curiosity, if we can bring our curiosity to every time we're with someone, no matter how long, we've been together with them. That is what allows the like the desire and like the fire to
keep going. I see what you're saying, of course, because things change. Yes. And so if you
just say on this first date, oh, you can like you responded, Because you, I kissed you here and you really liked that. And then I did that for the next 50 years. Yeah, that's not what being a good lover is. Right? And so and that comes back to what I believe is that our pleasure changes in every moment. And so to get to be curious, what's you know, if you and I were having having a scene together, then we're bringing my curiosity, and I'm paying attention?
Andrea Enright 27:19
Yeah. Okay. All right. So like you said, this, was there, just a huge aha teaching moment really for you? Because you're like, oh, like, because you hadn't done that response before?
Janelle Orion 27:30
Yeah. Right. Like, recognizing that we're both we're both in conditioning, right? Like, I am here. I am thinking he's gonna know what to do. This is in my past, right? And now I'm like, oh, no, now I know what to do up. But that didn't mean that he'd gone through the journey to figure out that he didn't have to know what to do that he was going to be listening, right and responding.
Andrea Enright 27:50
Well, and then what came up for me when is that? So there's an insecurity there, right? That arises like, oh, shit, I don't know what to do. And I'm supposed to know what to do. There's also kind of a take charge attitude that maybe, I don't know, just gets into the feminine masculine territory, where it's like, oh, now you're calling the shots. In the power dynamic, hey, I want you to do this. And I don't know what was happening before. But that's it's a switch, right? And so I think some people in their power dynamic with a longtime boyfriend or partner or or lover, they have a certain power dynamic where the one person tends to lead right or initiate. So I've been in a situation where I'm like, Oh, I'm disrupting the flow by saying, Oh, no, I don't like this do this. Because we've been doing this same way for a long time. Right. Right. So I think that's also where that's what can get interrupted. And there's nothing wrong with it, of course, but we're so accustomed to having it a particular way. In bed with a partner that that's that's a change. That's that's definitely something I've gone through.
Janelle Orion 28:58
Yes. And so what I'm hearing in that is, what sounds like to me is that there's a point where there was a stagnation and an assumption that oh, this is what I liked it, which means that I will have to like that I supposed to like that for the rest
Andrea Enright 29:13
of my life. Yeah, pretty much it. So you don't fix that then. But that ends up being how it is, right?
Janelle Orion 29:19
And so then there's someone realizes, Oh, I don't really like this thing anymore. And then it becomes awkward because they don't know really how to communicate that. Oh, I've changed. Yeah, my desires have changed. And I'm bringing in that actually, our desire is changing every moment. It's not just over years. Yeah. And so one of the things I was want to call out where I because I feel like that's a sign of of being a good lover, right? As I just said, The bravehearts is listening, and responding. But this step first of that was me listening and responding to myself. Right, what is it that I liked, Oh, I like this. I responded by articulating. And then I'm asking my lover to listen and to respond. But that's not it. And you've already mentioned this in What's your last comment? Oh, yeah, is that being a better lover is about attention? And attunement, right? I've been talking about listening and responding with words. But there are others ways of paying attention, right? Does someone's breath change? As I touched them here? Does their skin start to quiver? Are the little vibrations, right? If we're pouring our attention, and curiosity into someone to say, feel like feeling into what their response is not through their words, but through their, what their body is telling you about what they're about your touch, then, and this is what I think you were saying too, about, like, yes, you can be an incredible lover without having to be told what to do, because you're responding in a tuning Yeah, to their energy. Which brings us back full circle to the start of the conversation about the kissing with this guy, right? Which is that when you asked like, but what about like, aggressive kissing? can't that be great? And I'm like, yes. What I feel like now if I was going to teach someone how to be a better lover, and how to be a better kisser in particular, is that you're dancing with the energies. So that you're like, there's, there's, there's a given there's a taker? Yeah. But that if someone has, if you're like putting a really forceful energy, and not being met with that energy back, right, then that is like, Oh, we're out of attunement. Totally. Then you brought in the idea of like, Oh, what about like, here's a power, you brought in power, but the idea of maybe like someone dominant in someone's submissive, like, I'm in surrendering, right? But there is an attunement to, oh, is someone surrendering to my touch and becoming more and more relaxed? Yeah. Yeah, the level of intensity can go up and the level of relaxation can go up, because two things can be true. But in I would say, in the case with this particular person, and this kissing, right, his I wasn't getting more relaxed, the more he was kissing me, I was in his awkward, like, we're not sure. And so if he was a tuning if that had been attunement, it would have been like, oh, like, she doesn't like this. She's not or like, or, like, let's let me soften the tongues of my tongue is matching the radio. We're just coming out. So
Andrea Enright 32:54
yeah, I mean, I'm with you. Just like really just playing devil's advocate there. Yeah. But yes, I mean, you try something and you see, oh, how did that work? What's the and then you respond accordingly? Yeah, listen and respond. Right.
Janelle Orion 33:05
So to recap, what I would say my journey to being a better lover was one to figure out what actually brings me pleasure to listen and respond to what it is my body likes. And then, once I was able to do that, it made it much easier for me to listen to nature respond to what my lover was asking of me. And then attention and attunement, like pouring my attention and attune attention into this other person. And then my tuning my energies to their energies are all the things that have impacted my ability? anyone curious.
Andrea Enright 33:56
Okay, so what the other question I have is, you are a giver, and you are very attuned to a roomful of people attuned to who's needing water, who might be uncomfortable, and there are certain personalities that naturally have these qualities. Yeah, I can think of different people in my life, were really good at it. And then others just like not their thing. So if someone's it's really not someone's thing. How do you learn this?
Janelle Orion 34:24
Well, what you just started with a tuning to someone else, I know people are gonna judge me to someone else. So let me say this again, brave hearts. This is not where you start. You have to learn to attune to yourself. And so once, that's the starting point,
Andrea Enright 34:42
great, but I can be super attuned to myself. I'm not nearly as attuned to everyone in the room as you are, because we have different personalities. So I might be, I'm just, I'm just saying like, I might be super attuned into like, I'm feeling this, but just not naturally, as attuned to me. Anyone in the room? And so I'm just wondering if there's anything I can.
Janelle Orion 35:02
So I would I would love to do. Because I'm not talking about everyone in the room. I'm talking about, oh, we've got one person in front of you. And I know. And so yeah, so I'm asking to bring it to that question. So your attention is going to Okay, you've if you've started to listen and respond to what it is that you need, can you bring your attention to this other one other person, like focused here, have started noticing and bringing curiosity to listening responding to their words. And then also to the noticing of the like, these smaller details of breath? Some of us haven't, there's a natural level of skill, maybe, which is what you're speaking to, of achievement, but I'm saying this is a skill that can be learned. Yeah, that however you have been, right, because I hear just my whole story is I used to be a different way. And I'm different now.
Andrea Enright 36:03
Yeah, yeah. Okay. And I think what I'm wanting to remember and pass on to the brave hearts is that, you know, you can start this anytime, right? Like, anytime of your life, anytime in the relationship, anytime, in the beginning, or halfway through or, or just, there's, it's never really too late to begin doing this, right.
Janelle Orion 36:26
I mean, this brings up another client that I had actually put a post about this, which is that a client realized he's in his mid 60s, that in a sexual experience, he had never asked for what he wanted. He was always trying to please the other person. And in doing so, he was like, oh, i What is it that I want? And I was like, the place to start is with an exploration? Like, what are the different sensations? This is BDSM is great for that. Take out a whole bunch of different sensation toys, right? And start to what if others do? What is, you know, like claws? Do you? What are sensations? What are areas of the body? And bringing the curiosity to yourself? Yeah, to say, Oh, what is it that I like, instead of back to our conditioning that all of us have? Yeah, of, oh, I'm supposed to like this or not supposed to like this. This kind of comes back to our podcast that we just recorded about small ways to give ourselves permission is I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna allow myself to try something new in this area of self exploration or being with my partner and lover of I just, let's just try all things new today. And just without the expectation that we know what we're gonna like, or not like,
Andrea Enright 37:46
yeah, strangely, that's the ultimate challenge is that change is hard. You know, like, and initiating that change can be especially hard. I mean, I've, I've done it and gotten through it and happy to be on the other side of it like, Yeah, but it definitely was. Oh, so uncomfortable. I think I'm gonna Nope, I guess I'm just not gonna mention it. Or I'm not gonna mention it tonight. Right. Right. Because yeah, yeah.
Janelle Orion 38:14
I mean, clearly, the stuff that I've shared about me, and my journey was like, none of that was easy. Yeah. Yeah, it's challenge. And this is easy on his part to write for him to say that to me, right, right. Like that. My, my husband, like the like, that wasn't an easy thing for him to say. Yeah.
Andrea Enright 38:34
So this, just gonna end it kind of by coming back to this, this quote that all of you know, because my family and I say a prayer every night at dinner, and we say, Thank you for our family. Thank you for our food. Thank you for this moment. Namaste. And Namaste, as many of you may know, means the light in me, honors the light in you can be interpreted different ways, of course. But and it's so funny because we, I think of that, and I think they think of it in a yoga class as Oh, I see you. Right, which is beautiful. I see you, except it starts with the light in me, huh? And that's really what this episode is about. Is like No, what's your pleasure? Right? How do you feel in the moment? What do you like? What do you not like? And when humans what you're reflecting to me is like, when you figure out who you are and what your where your Divine is and what your light is. Only then can you truly see the light or the divine and others.
Janelle Orion 39:39
Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, way to describe it, because it's ultimately like this episode is about giving yourself permission to be curious about all of the ways you may never have explored for yourself. Yeah. sensation, touch. Communication. And that none of us know, this is also interesting. I never thought about this, but that we say we've been cultured to assume that someone else is going to know what it is that can bind read for us. Well, in a way, we're also conditioned to think that we can mind read that without exploration, we should just know we shouldn't just know what we want. But it's taking years of exploration. Oh, there's a whole thing of BDSM tools. I can tell you the five that are my go twos. And I've tried a whole bunch of others, right, but I have to try the others to know Oh, these are the ones that I prefer most of the time.
Andrea Enright 40:36
Yeah, back to cultural conditioning. We're told what to want. Like,
Janelle Orion 40:41
right, I'm supposed to like to have sex in a bed versus someone else figured out finally, oh, my god kitchen table is amazing. Right. But like I have
yet to figure that out. Which comes back to the mission behind permission to be human is that we're never proselytizing for any particular type of thing. Just to know that you have a choice.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that when you listen to our inner which to our inner knowing to the light to our heart, then where it takes us is often not where we were told to go. No shit.
Andrea Enright 41:25
Well, your instincts bravehearts we're out of here.
Janelle Orion 41:29
Enjoy.
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