Remember, a Braveheart is anyone who has found or seeks the courage to confront their limiting fears and beliefs around breaking societal norms. Here are Bravehearts in Action! Boomers! Middle aged males! Twenty something musical protoges. There is no one way to be a Braveheart, and sharing your story gives others courage. There’s a nod to: Maria Popova and the Marginalian You’ll hear:
--How even Boomers are embracing unconventional formats
--What Andrea heard pre-threesome and why she still remembers it
--Why quitting corporate was the right decision for Kelly
--How Janelle’s clients’ mesh biker shorts received such radical acceptance
--About a single 60-something refuses to be caged by societal expectation
Write to us now! Let us be your cheerleaders.#juilliard #youarebrave #mariapopova #marginalian
TRANSCRIPT:
Janelle Orion 0:01
Andrea, hi friend, hi friend. And
Andrea Enright 0:03
to the brave hearts listening out there. Welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea
Janelle Orion 0:08
and I'm Janelle.
Andrea Enright 0:08
Get ready for some real time relationship. Woo and wisdom from the front lines with occasional tantrums and tears about how breaking rules, blurring boundaries and tossing tradition can be catalysts for finding your truth.
Janelle Orion 0:20
Let's debunk the fairy tales we were told as children and create a new map for life. Yes, Disney can go fuck itself if you're seeking permission to choose your own path. Freedom is the new F word. People and want to feel less alone along the way,
Andrea Enright 0:34
we got you. Please note, this is our side of the story. Our partners and metamours have their own individual experiences, and we do not speak for them.
Janelle Orion 0:50
Hey, Andrea, hi, Janelle,
Andrea Enright 0:52
welcome to permission to be human. Bravehearts.
Janelle Orion 0:55
We're so excited that you're listening.
Andrea Enright 0:59
Today we're going to read eight stories from brave hearts in action. Yes,
Janelle Orion 1:04
this is a new phrase that we're using. Catch on to it because we know that there is not one way to be a brave heart, that there is an infinite number of ways, an infinite number of moments. And from our own experience when we hear other people being brave, it gives us permission and the courage to be more brave ourselves true that
Andrea Enright 1:28
is so, so resonant and true for me, we're today. We're going to hear about a couple from Boomer generation who have found a new life format. We're going to hear about the one line that someone said to me before a threesome that made me respect this person forever. We are going to hear about a guy who totally stepped out of his comfort zone at the risk of being misunderstood. And we're also going to hear about a woman who quit musical school because she did not like the container that she was trying to express in did not work for her, and so she found a new one such this little sneak peek into what's coming today. So who was our first Braveheart? Janelle,
Janelle Orion 2:16
our first Braveheart is may dear friend of ours who has been following us closely and supporting us on our Braveheart journey. Thank you. May, thank you. May we love you so much. And she reached out to us and let us know that she had been struggling as a Braveheart she had recently found a new therapist that she was seeking to help her with her intersectionality of being queer, poly and Chinese, and trying to find someone to support her in the ways she didn't feel seen in all of those areas, but in filling out, as some of us know, filling out The new form for a therapist can be super challenging, intake, intake, and you know, having to go through her that form may just recognize, like all these like questions about her childhood, and noticing all these areas where she thought she had made progress, and then feeling in that moment that maybe She hadn't made progress, and here she was at 35 it's been, you know, more than 20 years, and she's still in this, like, uh, feeling. And she actually got physically sick, and she that's what she was telling us. She was, like, physically sick, of like, drained and exhausted and stressed and sniffly, and from filling out this form, and just having this feeling of just not having made progress, but yet reaching out to us at the same time in that moment of despair. And here's my response to her, it feels
Andrea Enright 3:56
like you're saying that's what made her brave. Her Yes, in a sense, right? She's like, Oh my god, I'm not fucking figuring this out
Janelle Orion 4:02
yes and that she let us know in the moment that she felt low and down and depressed and despairing. She reached out yes, because in my response to her was just like, thank you so much for trusting us. Because what I've seen and witnessed in her is that her resilience to get up again and again and again every time she goes around the mountain, and she gets up stronger and more resilient each time, and that the fact that she allowed us to witness her in this moment, and to really, like, open her heart and be so vulnerable with us is allow like shows me that she's choosing not to be alone.
Andrea Enright 4:53
She's choosing not to be alone. She's choosing that because it's a choice, the
Janelle Orion 4:58
choice, choice that in. This moment of feeling like shitty that she's like, and I'm gonna reach out to someone for support, just to witness right you, and I didn't have any solutions for her. We just witnessed her Yeah, and felt her courage and felt her bravery, and I just were encouraging her and seeing her
Andrea Enright 5:20
Yes, sitting in the discomfort, yes, yeah, this really landed for me when you just said that you're like, she's choosing not to be alone, even though she's not getting any solutions. She's just choosing to be witnessed. And that takes courage in itself. Yeah, so much courage. And I remember, so I responded also to her message and just calling out, like, her commitment to self awareness, right, her commitment to the journey, like, to getting to the root issue of everything, rather than just the top shit that doesn't really matter. I just read something in the marginality and in the marginalian. Does anyone read that? This is, this is a newsletter I get every week from Maria Popova. And she said, let me just quote how we love, how we give and how we suffer, is just about the sum of who we are. And I think that last one's important, like I thought about how I love and how I give, of course, most of my life probably not as closely as I do now, but how I suffer is pretty central to my being, and we can choose to suffer in anger. We can choose to suffer alone, and we can really choose the attitude about our suffering. I guess I'm just sort of dissecting this as I'm saying it. Yeah, so it's big. We
Janelle Orion 6:49
can't necessarily escape suffering. I know there's a quote that Buddha has in this, right,
Andrea Enright 6:53
pain is optional, or sorry, pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
Janelle Orion 6:58
And so what can we control? We may not be able to control the despair and the loneliness that we feel in a moment, but we can control that, hey, we're going to reach out to a friend and ask for witnessing and support. And I would say that that is, you know, May's response to us, like after we reflected back to her, just like how grateful we were, yeah, and to be in it with her essentially holding hands, right? We're just holding hands, envisioning us holding hands together in the muck, right? And she said she's like sitting and noticing discomfort is becoming enjoyable and profoundly rewarding, because may have more than anyone I know has made a life's work of going. Where is there discomfort? Why is that there? And like, unearthing and digging and digging until she finds the root cause of it. And it used to be a lot of mocking now that's distilled down to isolated incidences of like, Oh, I feel discomfort right now. I know she knows there's reward on the other side. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 7:57
so let me just say that again, you said she said sitting and noticing discomfort is becoming enjoyable, like enjoyable and profoundly rewarding, not just profoundly rewarding. Enjoyable. I don't even know if I can get there
Janelle Orion 8:14
right. Like she makes a sense. She gets more inspirational and stronger and more resilient each time she goes around this mountain. I just
Andrea Enright 8:21
had a little Association. I'm just like, oh yeah, I know what she means. I don't know if I can actually enjoy it, but I know what she's talking about, and that feels like somewhat progress. And then she further went on to say, it's been nice and incredibly painful to get here, as I have just become so, so bored of my internal negative voices and patterns, and it's time to even surrender that. Yeah, yeah, really big.
Janelle Orion 8:51
So we see you may being a Braveheart. We're so proud of you. We love you, and you're an inspiration. Yeah, she's
Andrea Enright 8:58
a Braveheart in action. Yes,
Janelle Orion 9:00
she is love it
Andrea Enright 9:02
okay. So now you have an you have a client story.
Janelle Orion 9:04
I do have a client story. As a pro Dom, I work with men and women on surrender, and of all the skills I bring to my sessions, I believe, like the most impactful one I bring is my presence, my attention and my radical acceptance. And these three qualities foster deep trust, right? And this is deep work that I'm doing with my clients, because they are invited to reveal parts of themselves to me that they may not have ever revealed to anybody else.
Andrea Enright 9:35
Okay, so this is really central to your work. You're saying like, Okay. And
Janelle Orion 9:41
so I had a client come who had seen him already three times. And part of the ritual of a session is that the client takes a shower first and comes out wearing a robe, and this time he came out with a different outfit on. Yeah. And so to paint the picture, you know, he's in his 60s, big shock of white hair, big, thick, European man, executive, really, like open hearted, I can just tell is like a really great leader, caring about his employees. He's both confident and he's humble about his skills, and he's an avid cyclist, so he's like, fit and in shape, and he has this huge, loud belly laugh that I just love so much, and I look forward to hearing every time I see him, nice.
Andrea Enright 10:34
I have a picture in my mind. Yeah, well done. And so on. This
Janelle Orion 10:38
session, he comes out of the bathroom, and instead of wearing a robe, he's wearing these black mesh boxer shorts with mesh suspenders attached and with a thong underneath.
Andrea Enright 10:55
Whoa, yeah, yeah. So
Janelle Orion 10:57
I just look at him with a smile, and I like eyes open, and he says, You always wear such elaborate outfits. I wanted to join in the fun too. Plus it's Halloween.
Andrea Enright 11:11
Wow, that's yeah. I'm still like, I've read this a few times, and I'm still just like, whoa. Love the confidence, yeah,
Janelle Orion 11:19
and the confidence, and, really, the confidence in me receiving Him yes, and the willingness and the courage for him to do something that he was nervous about, and just to trust and see and then feel seen in it, and so that, like his brave heart moment there. I just, I felt the tenderness of it. I felt the gift of it, like really honored that, that he trusted me in that moment and to see him in his and his joy and His radiance of feeling so great. He felt so great in this outfit. And I could tell and that that's the point, like, if you take the courage and take the leap, and it can be scary, yeah, and then being received with me and my smile and being like, Yay, I'm so proud of you. And then him being be able to, like, feel a part of himself get witnessed
Andrea Enright 12:18
and held. Now, right here, he was risking being misunderstood, judged, judged. But I'm also hearing that you're, you're setting up such a container and you're creating so much trust with your clients that they're like, I'm,
Janelle Orion 12:34
I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do the thing that I have been scared to do or I've been told I cannot do.
Andrea Enright 12:38
Yes, yes. Amazing. Like, that is a Braveheart in action. Yeah, wow, yeah, that's, I think that's just a great story. It's really in my head too. Like, I can see such a
Janelle Orion 12:49
visual. I really liked it. Angie, I know you're a visual. Let me put in all these adjectives and descriptions.
Andrea Enright 12:54
Like, what does this outfit look like? I need more. Okay, what about you? So, maybe, I don't know how, maybe five or six years ago, my husband, when I were in the beginning of exploring polyamory, and he had started dating someone in our neighborhood, and it made me a little bit uncomfortable, like she's so close by, and, you know, there's some sort of proximity to that, that was hard. But then I met her lovely person, and we had, all three of us had dinner together one night, and we were dabbling in playing together. So we were just having a great time that night. And we sort of thought, oh, maybe we should all play together. You know, have a have some kind of a threesome. And so we proposed this to her, and she said, You know, I just, I really, you know, I think it would be lovely, but I've been having some body issues lately. And you know, you're just, you're really little, and I just think that might, that might make me uncomfortable, and like she
Janelle Orion 13:57
recognized that she might compare herself her body to her body. Yeah, and I'm just like,
Andrea Enright 14:03
that's so amazing. Like, I still I remember that to this. This was so long ago. I was like, That's fucking awesome. Like, so vulnerable, so honest, so self aware. Yeah, doesn't know me very well at all. And was just like, No, this is how I'm feeling right now, like, and so I'm not gonna do it. Instead of just being like, No, I'm not interested. Like, just being, I just that kind of honesty is
Janelle Orion 14:29
like, is it Braveheart in action? New hashtag people, well,
Andrea Enright 14:37
hashtag, Braveheart in action. I'm just like, yeah, I sort of just adore this person from afar, even now, even though I never see her, my
Janelle Orion 14:45
next brave heart in action is Mika. She is 27 years old, lives in New York City and have been working full time as well as got into Juilliard in this past year, which is a very precise. Just uses school and she got in for piano and for composing. And after having gotten in and have, I think she had finished a full year, she decided to quit. She decided to quit both school and working full time so that she could focus on composing full time, which is what she's going to learning to do, right, exactly. So she was going to school for this, but what she realized while she was at school is that they were teaching her how to compose based on a structure or a formula or like, here's how composing has looked. However you teach composing, right? And she, in her creative heart, was like, No, I have a different way, like a different idea, a different sense of myself that will feel constrained if I follow what they're asking me to do. That
Andrea Enright 16:01
is fucking brave, that is listening to the whispers Yes, yes. And so say no. Juilliard, yeah, I'm doing it my way.
Janelle Orion 16:08
I know. And it's big. It's so big. I'm so proud of her and brave fires. Here's a treat. She just has released two songs on Spotify, and so with the links are gonna be in show notes and her. Her name is antner, her musical name, but what she is doing is she is combining music which she hears and sees in her mind, and then is created, has created paintings of what she hears and sees in her mind. So she has paintings to go along with the music that she has composed. And so the cover art on Spotify is the paintings that she painted. And then so you can, just like, meditate and look at the paintings while you're listening to her art. My God, I
Andrea Enright 16:55
didn't know this part. This is, like, so exciting,
Janelle Orion 16:58
yes, so Nick, so proud of you. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 17:02
Braveheart. Brave Heart actually still taking that in this whole, like painting and the music, because this, like combining two mediums together, two creative expressions that are you're feeling at the same time. I just, yeah, I adore that. That's I can't wait to see those paintings. Okay, that's very exciting. So for Mika, was this a Braveheart moment just for herself, like Did she was she supported by her parents? Or did she have enough money to quit school and just compose on her own? Or had she put a lot of money into this already? What was her situation? So no,
Janelle Orion 17:32
she's definitely being a Braveheart in many ways. Her parents not psyched she because she's quitting her job and schools like, she already invested in school, but no, she's also quitting her job, and so she doesn't have a ton of savings. Yeah, um, you know, she's 27 and so she is, yeah, like, gonna reduce her expenses? I think she's gonna go travel for a while, not live in New York. Yes, having to defend her whispers in her heart, yeah to those around her, amazing.
Andrea Enright 18:04
Okay, this is making me think of another brave heart that I have to bring up to now. I'm just gonna call her out. I think she's gonna love it. Um, Kelly Kroger, she was at the witness sister head of it. Yes, yes. You know she's been at the goddess temple a couple times since then. Hey, Kelly. And I worked with her doing Braveheart coaching. In the last year, she was working in HR, lots of direct reports, you know, fairly lot of responsibility. Hated her job so much, and was just really struggling to quit. Like, it's like, oh my gosh, no, I did all the right things. Can I really do something different? What am I going to do? I'm not going to have a plan. People are going to be like, What are you doing? Quitting? You don't even have another job. There's so much cultural conditioning pressure for her not to quit. And I remember asking her once, what you know, Kelly, what do you really want to do? And she was like, I want to get a PhD in Russian literature and teach. I was like, okay, amazing. She's like, Yeah, but, oh my god, I can't do that, right? And I led her through the quitting, I say, I took her from, like, existentialist conversation to exit interview. And like, isn't that good? Like, so true. Like, just met with her every month, like, kept it going. Okay, here's what we're gonna say now, here's gonna talk to your boss. We're gonna talk to your people. We're gonna manage these emotions. And she was such a Braveheart in action. Like, I'm so proud of her. And now, you know that's and that's what she's doing. And I haven't, I haven't spoken with her in a few months now, but I'm eager to check in again and see, like, how's it going. I mean, she was going to get a job at the library and basically start studying and just have a completely different life, right, but a life that she knew was right for her. Yes.
Janelle Orion 19:48
So yes. So proud. Good job. Kelly, yay, Braveheart. We're going to keep going here for those listening, but recognize that like the joy. Way, as we said in the beginning, there's no one way to be a Braveheart, right? And these moments of courage are come from our own upbringing, our own who told us what and when and how, and has what, how was something supposed to look and the joy of you and I being the cheerleaders over here is that any person that I find who is willing to take the courage to get take one step closer to the truth of their heart, to me, brings more joy into the world, gives gives me more joy, and is, like, the reason for everything.
Andrea Enright 20:36
Yeah, this a quote. I'm not gonna remember the source of this quote, because it's not a famous person, but like, or it is, but it's someone I don't know. I mean, I've loved this code for 25 years, like, don't, I think it's like, don't, don't save the world. Just do something that makes you come alive. That's enough, right? And that's just it. That's it. Yeah, because in doing that, you're ultimately saving the world you are. Yes, exactly, right. Why don't you tell why don't you sneak in our celebrity? One, yes, this No, I
Janelle Orion 21:06
agree. I agree. Okay, so Adele, I'm guessing, very far as y'all know who she is. Well, at the height of her fame, when she created 21 or her new found fame, right? She had the album 19 and then 21 came out, right? And her age right at her and that was her age, and she became pregnant. And she has told the story that people around her at that time who were were just like, you can't keep this baby. Like, what are you doing? Like, this is the height, like, you're on this, like, pop star trajectory to, like, control the world, right, take over the world, and this will totally ruin your career, right? And she, at this ripe young age of 21 had to or maybe 22 but, like, went inside and was like, Can I be a pop star and also be a mom. Like, isn't that possible? As I was hearing her tell the story. Here she is, 11 years later, and she's here to report that, yes, you actually can, actually can do at the same time. Yes, she pulled it off. She pulled it off. And yeah, being a mother, she said, is like the things she's the most proud of, and that, right? And then, yeah, she's also managed to create four platinum selling blah, blah, blah albums during the same time, right? So, great.
Andrea Enright 22:27
Okay, so this next brave heart in action is a friend of mine. She's just such an interesting inspiration to be. I don't even know her that well. I met her on LinkedIn, and it's not one thing she did, but it is a mindset. It's an attitude. It is a meta awareness of her own way. She is in her early 60s. She's widowed, she has one adult child, and she faces a lot of people who say, I mean, why haven't you settled down yet? Like, Don't you regret not finding someone? Like, what are you doing? And it's not that she's not open to partnership, but she's just like, I don't have to have that. Like, I'm okay by myself. She feels free. She is. In fact, she she spent, I don't know, a few months in Charleston, like, a while back, and just like, stayed at Airbnb there. She just went to Mexico for Day of the Dead, ran into some, like, high luxury real estate gal at her gym, who does these, like, high end Airbnbs, and, like, got a deal, right? And so now she's in Mexico, and I just love her spirit. Like, I'm like, oh, yeah, you're doing it. Like, it doesn't matter whether people say who are 60 or who are just like, Ah, you're not married. What are you doing,
Janelle Orion 23:48
right? You're like, and what it sounds like is, she's living a very vibrant, very alive life. And so that's making some people uncomfortable. Yeah, that's
Andrea Enright 23:56
a good, interesting point. It does. It makes people uncomfortable to watch and think, What are you doing? You can't do that, right?
Janelle Orion 24:03
And is it because there's a part of them that feels dead inside and feels like, How come you can do that and I can't do that? Yeah,
Andrea Enright 24:09
I wonder. I don't know. Yeah, she is basically, she is alone, and she's just fine. She's happy, right? Not to say she won't have a partner in the future. She may. I was so happy to like just to see her continually do this. I've known her for over a year now. This also reminds me of an interview on fresh air with Bridget Everett. She's the star of somebody somewhere. She's from Kansas. She is a cabaret performer. She waited tables in a karaoke for like, 2527 years. Wow. And just kind of made, you know, kind of made it big in the last few and it's a very big woman like, Oh, she talks openly about breasts, about boobs, about anything this taboo. And she really embodies a brave heart spirit. And when she was discussing. Her own attitude, which is partly autobiographical. On her her show somebody somewhere, and she said, you know, what if we're not all doing that, boy meet girl, happily ever after thing, like, what if that's not the end all be all anymore. Like, what if it's not we want. What if we want and need people to nourish us in different ways, whether we get sex in that way or not, or whether we get it some other way or that we don't get it at all. Like, isn't that legitimate too, right?
Janelle Orion 25:28
Like, what I'm hearing with that is, aren't there more than one fairy tale? Yeah,
Andrea Enright 25:32
that's a great way to say it, like there are more than one fairy tales. This is just one form of a fairy tale that we have been shown in rom coms in Disney and Hollywood for so long, right?
Janelle Orion 25:41
And which is, like the Cinderella and Prince Charming, exactly,
Andrea Enright 25:46
right? You know, even in rom coms now, like, it doesn't have to be a boy and a girl, but like, it is, like you get together with someone else, for sure, yes, and you live with them forever, and that's the deal, right? And, yeah, I'm just, I'm happy that it doesn't have to be that, right? And actually, I
Janelle Orion 26:03
believe that this one, quote, unquote, fairy tale of the Cinderella's and Prince Charmings has been the one that's been like, marketed to us, but that there have been people all along living outside of this. It's just that it's kind of an under the radar because of the either the shame or we're gonna get in trouble or like we're gonna be judged or rejected or something, yeah? But that actually, what feels true in my system is that we're just being more vocal, just like you and I are, and talking about, talking topics, about things we didn't invent any of this shit. No, it's just that we're bringing it to the surface.
Andrea Enright 26:41
Yeah? So true then, yeah, it's a quiet minority that's been doing it for a long time.
Janelle Orion 26:47
Okay, so I know you've got another one, which is, there's a couple in your neighborhood.
Andrea Enright 26:51
So I just barely know this woman in my neighborhood. She is the neighbor of good friend of mine. I've had a couple conversations with her on the sidewalk when I've walked out of my friend's house. She likes my boots. We exchange a couple snarky comments. You can tell she's a little wild child, but she's probably, yeah, she's, I would say she's in her 70s, and she is married, and I recently found out from my friend that she has a somewhat unusual situation at home, so let's just call her Maria. Maria and Jack, right? So they live together, and she also has a long time friend. Let's call him Pete. Maria and Jack have been married for a very long time. They have a son, an adult son. They're comfortable in their house with each other. Pete is a widower, and he's retired, and he spends most of his time at Jack and Maria's sleeping over, hanging out with them. They all eat dinner together. They sit on the porch together. Sometimes, Pete and Maria go into the mountains for Harley rides. Jack stays home when it snows, Pete shovels the walk. Jack stays inside. And Maria has related to my friend that she's just so appreciative because she has Pete to go into the world with. Jack is somewhat of a homebody, and he gets to stay home, and she gets to go out into the world with Pete, and she'd go crazy without that. And so I know almost nothing more about this situation, and I feel like I just don't need to, like, I don't, I don't know if it always, doesn't always work out for them, or maybe they have issues as any marriage or situation does. I don't know what's happening behind closed doors, and I don't need to know, but, like, that fraction of a model, to me, was just like, fucking awesome. Good for you. Like, you're figuring something out that's working, that's working for you? Yes, yeah,
Janelle Orion 28:41
what I hear in that is, and again, why we're even doing this Braveheart in action episode is, sometimes it's the seed of the idea of, oh, it can be done differently. There's another way to Yes. That is what a Braveheart is listening for. Andrea and I are never talking about, oh, you should do it anything the way that we did it, no. But we know that when I hear how Andrea is doing something, or how she hears how I'm doing something, that we each get a little bit more courageous to do something. Or like, Oh, there's another possibility. And so I'm listening about Maria and Pete and Jack. Is that? Oh, right, there can be other ways of growing old and living in the suburbs, right? That's so true. That brings joy,
Andrea Enright 29:27
yeah, yeah. That brings joy, that brings contentment, that brings feeling of feeling alive. Mm, hmm. So hats off to you guys. Your brave hearts in action. You don't even, you don't even know it, yeah, and you're doing it, and you've been culturally conditioned for 5560, years, right? With something different. So that's that's awesome.
Janelle Orion 29:47
Brave hearts. This is what we haven't asked for you. We got some Braveheart homework, which we haven't had in a while, which is in listening to this episode. We one want you just to reflect on your own life. Yes. And where are you being a Braveheart? And we're gonna start doing more of these episodes. So if you want someone to feel inspired by your journey or just a snippet of your journey, or
Andrea Enright 30:12
if you just wanna tell someone about your journey, yes, be witnessed, be heard, be received,
Janelle Orion 30:17
yeah, and whether you want us to use your name or not, is okay, because what we know is that other people are inspired by listening to our stories, and so we know they'll be inspired by listening to yours. And we if you do want to be acknowledged, then we're also going to start tagging people and including you on our Instagram.
Andrea Enright 30:37
Yeah, exactly. So go online to our website, write in, contact us, let us know how you're being a brave heart in the any way you want, the smallest way, in the biggest way. We are open to that and we love you. Thank you for listening. Yes, because
Janelle Orion 30:52
we are here to cheer you on. Yeah, have a great day. Do you need permission to be human? You got it. Listen, subscribe and review on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, learn more about us at permission to be human. Dot live you.