Every Braveheart Conversation is packed with vulnerability, verve and so much insight. Andrea and Janelle offer thoughts on processing grief, healing masculine wounds and overcoming the lonely of lingering within. There’s a nod to Liz Gilbert, Tim Ferris and Alison Armstrong’s book, “Keys to the Kingdom”, and our episode “Trigger Warning: How Janelle Went from Feminist to Feminine.” You’ll hear:
--Why identifying your own masculine and feminine is the first step
--How anxiety and productivity can stop grief processing in its tracks
--Why its good to question and define our own version of intimacy
--Different ways to be in relationship: The H vs. the A
--Why there’s nothing selfish about choosing ourselves first
TRANSCRIPT:
Janelle Orion 0:01
Andrea, hi friend, hi friend. And
Andrea Enright 0:03
to the brave hearts listening out there. Welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea
Janelle Orion 0:08
and I'm Janelle.
Andrea Enright 0:08
Get ready for some real time relationship. Woo
Janelle Orion 0:11
and wisdom from the front lines with occasional tantrums and tears about
Andrea Enright 0:15
how breaking rules, blurring boundaries and tossing tradition can be catalysts for finding your truth.
Janelle Orion 0:20
Let's debunk the fairy tales we were told as children and create a new map for life. Yes, Disney can go fuck itself if you're seeking permission to choose your own path. Freedom is the new F word. People and want to feel less alone along the way, we got you. Please
Andrea Enright 0:36
note, this is our side of the story. Our partners and metamours have their own individual experiences, and we do not speak for them.
Hello friend.
Janelle Orion 0:51
Hey Andrea, hi, brave hearts. We're excited to be back for another episode, another Braveheart conversation recap episode. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 1:01
it's true. More juicy conversation, so much of it. Yeah,
Janelle Orion 1:05
there's, this is our sixth one. And for those of you who watch our reels, or who watch our YouTube, you're gonna notice craziness that Angie and I are in opposite chairs today. I don't know if you'll notice, but I have a totally new perspective on life, yeah, sitting on the other side of the room, because it's all it takes brave hearts is just mix up, mix up one thing,
Andrea Enright 1:26
a little single thing. It's very true. Okay, so this was a brave heart conversation, as we always have here at the goddess temple, with inquiry and insight. So today we're going to be talking about grief processing, curious if intimacy is linked to purpose, if
Janelle Orion 1:49
focusing on ourselves makes us a bad wife or partner,
Andrea Enright 1:55
if we have some wounds around the masculine how do we address those when entering a new partnership. And yeah, I would say also, just, how do we go deep into ourselves and not get too lonely beautiful? That's a tough one. Yeah,
Janelle Orion 2:14
so we're gonna dive in. So the first question, how do I reconnect with myself, be brave in choosing myself. Does that make me a bad wife or partner? And it's really lonely when I'm reconnecting, I just feel like crying, and it's not pleasant,
Andrea Enright 2:33
yeah, and I really have so much compassion. I was just like, Oh, I totally feel you. I get it like it does not make you a bad wife or partner to be going inside, but it's new. It's unfamiliar, and it's not always somebody's encouraged by our culture to do that so but I do think that when we show up for ourselves, even in small little bits, just like sort of like flexing a muscle, then we can become more present for our partner, for the people in our life, for our children. And I've definitely experienced the reward of that, but the pain initially and going inward, and the loneliness for sure, like it is so lonely. And I can actually testament though, I can actually tell you that I used to go in and be lonely, and now I go in and my mind is still like, oh, you should be lonely. Here, you should be lonely. Here, you're lonely. Definitely lonely. Don't, don't think you're gonna get out of getting lonely. But when I check in with my body, I'm like, Oh, nope, not lonely. Just glad to be with myself. It's a weird feeling, but it has taken years, actually practice to get there. Yeah,
Janelle Orion 3:46
yeah, and I've been a witness to the journey painful Yes, and I agree, choosing ourselves is perceived by others and ourselves potentially as being selfish, and I actually consider it the opposite. When we reconnect with ourselves. I call it investing in our radiance. But it can be really uncomfortable, as you just mentioned, right? There's so much to unlearn. And then when we unlearn something, just as like what you just said, like when we unlearn that, oh, we're not lonely. Then the nourishment that comes from being with ourselves and the enjoyment and the pleasure that comes from that state also can be uncomfortable until we get used to it, like, it's like, oh, it's uncomfortable feeling good as well, until we've increased our capacity for that pleasure bitch? Yeah, I've
Andrea Enright 4:44
introduced a couple times with people recently and like, Oh, you're doing good. How does it feel like? It feels like shit
Janelle Orion 4:50
feels
awful,
yeah? But I would say that that's actually a really great sign that it's working. Yeah, I agree. Like, there was, I saw, there was this beautiful, like, like, tick tock meme or something, where a woman had a jar and put a bunch of ping pong balls in it, and she said, Okay, now you're reconnecting with yourself to use this question, and poured water in. And then all these, but all these ping pong started to rise to the top. And she's like, this is all the suck energy, the emotions that are uncomfortable and unpleasant, and they're going to start to bubble to the surface because they've been underneath the surface for so long. So you're going to, like, reconnect with yourself. Do self worth? Do all do this, all this work, personal growth. Pour more water in, and then more bubbles are going to come up, and more ping pong rather are going to come up. And it's going to be uncomfortable and it's painful, because you can feel them and you don't want to feel them, but if you pour more water in, eventually the ping pongs fall out, and then what you're left with is just a jar of clear water. It's really good. It was really good. I like it. Yeah. So the journey, I think if we were to think of, oh, it shouldn't hurt, it shouldn't be painful. Then ultimately, what we're doing is bypassing, and that's actually not the solution either. Yeah, spiritual bypass, yes, reverse, learning about that, but so it takes a lot of patience and practice to move through.
Andrea Enright 6:14
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So Liz Gilbert, you know the Eat, Pray, Love, lady who I'm quoting all the time. She I just listened to the rest finally listened to the rest of her interview with Tim Ferriss, and just continual gems in there. So she says, Whatever we do deeply, we do lonely.
Do you agree with that?
I don't know if I do.
Janelle Orion 6:43
Yeah, I don't know that I do. I feel like there is what resonates is, if I'm going in deep, it is, it's an internal like, this is the motivation is of my being, of my heart, my knowing. And so if I want someone to meet me there who's not meeting me there, then that would be a very lonely thing. But that, chances are, well, it depends, and it depends if it's an external or internal quest, right? Like a writer, it's probably very going deep. It's an internal process, right? That it might be a very lonely one, because it's a dialog with yourself, but in you and I just spoke about this, right? I went really deep into salsa dancing, and for like, three years, and that was an activity I didn't actually, I developed a couple of good friends from that. But it wasn't about the friendship, it was. It was about me connecting with myself, but I was able to do it in community. Hmm,
Andrea Enright 7:50
yeah, yeah. So, okay, so that's yeah, that's one perspective, yeah. That's interesting to me. I think that when I think about doing things deeply, I just feel like the deepest thing is when I'm alone, I just feel like, well, I can do something deep with a partner or with a friend like because there's only maybe one body to go into with me. It's like, No, I can excavate even more. I can be alone. It's just me. I don't have to manage someone else's nervous system, you know, someone else's like, past, wounds, baggage, any of that shit, right? It's just, it's just a little simpler, right, right? So therefore it's a little more focused. And so I think about doing things deeply, I'm just like, Yeah, and I'm doing things deeply. I'm doing them just me. And it can get lonely. It doesn't have to, though, I would say it, not necessarily, but that it has been my experience that when I, when I have gone the deepest in myself, I am not with anyone else.
Janelle Orion 8:50
Oh, and I think I, what I'm hearing with that is that I, I answer the question differently, like, am I going deeply into a project? But if the project is me, right, then I 100% agree, like I can be interacting with people who I love, and I can be connecting with on a deep level, yeah, then I almost had to come back to being alone so I can integrate that experience to understand and process it for myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I would say the more I connect with myself, like the less lonely I feel. Yes,
Andrea Enright 9:25
now I agree that's and I think that's what I've experienced. What I mentioned in the beginning of this question was like, Oh, I'm, I'm comfortable there now, right?
Janelle Orion 9:36
But I used to be very afraid of it, especially when I when I was afraid of being when I was afraid of being alone. Totally it was like, Oh my gosh, yeah. So there I'm recognizing the transition. I, you know, I used to go out and socialize seven nights a week when I was single and lived alone. I was socialized all the time, so I didn't want to spend a night alone. And now it's like a like, just COVID it.
Andrea Enright 9:57
Yeah, I know me too, and I really it is. Really an interesting
Janelle Orion 10:02
it's a fascinating change like
Andrea Enright 10:06
so I think the times when I've gone deep, this is also something that's come up recently, and I touched on when, when we talked with her, was that sometimes you have to go deep to hear the whispers, to listen to spirit, to hear God, right? And because you can only get that quiet when you go that deep. And recently, too, I've learned that I don't have to be in a certain place to go deep, I just have to make the space myself. So even if I'm on my porch and not like in the middle of the forest, I have to metaphorically create space around me that allows me to go deep. And that might mean setting my phone down. It may mean not answering a call from my from someone I know or not paying attention to what's happening in my neighborhood, not following a dog down the street with my eyes, like so many things have to be blocked out to create that space. And it's a challenge. It's a challenge in our world. And so it takes real commitment to to go that deep and listen that much. So the same person said, in addition, I believe that my husband only knows me in this post trauma state because he met me after I lost in a very short sequence, my brother, my dad and my uncle, all important masculine figures in my life. I think I've been in grief for many years. What if he has resistance to the real me?
Janelle Orion 11:43
Yeah. First I just like, feel right. I just, I feel the grief of what she's experienced in her life, right? And her being able to name that and acknowledge that, yeah, and acknowledging also that it's unprocessed grief in our culture, we are so grief phobic, death phobic. And yet the way that I really see grief and joy is, you know, two sides of the same coin, that the more we can feel our grief, then the more joy we can feel, and that allowing ourselves to, like, go into the grief and to feel it and to process it. And so my question for her is, has she allowed herself to process the grief like I get that she's questioning the relationship with her husband, but I'm is her husband going to, like, take a step or take a step back? Yeah, it's like, Okay, what's your relationship? What's her relationship, rather, with her grief, and how can she make sure that she's processed it for herself, for her own well being, and then from that place, like think about her relationship with her husband, but it feels like the loss of all of those men is such a huge weight inside her, and so if she can allow herself to move through it, then who would she be if she didn't have that weight? Is for her to discover. And so then the question is, how do you move through the grief? Right? And not that there's any one way. There's an emotional release tool where you're just allowing energy to move through, yes, also seeking grief therapy. There's grief rituals. There's actually community. There's I actually heard about a grief dance that a friend of mine is putting on like grieving in community can be a way to move through things and so but it's again, this is a brave heart action, because we're so accustomed to denying grief that to think, Oh, I'm going to seek support for my grief. Takes courage,
Andrea Enright 13:44
absolutely. So just want to say a little bit about the grief in that also what I think, what happens that I've experienced with grief is that it's much easier to just even though I'm so sad, like and I'm experiencing that sadness, and I'm sad and I think, Oh, I'm processing the grief. I'm processing the grief. What I was really doing a lot of that time was feeling sad and then putting on top of it, anxiety and busyness, anxiety and busyness, anxiety and busyness, over and over. And I wasn't actually processing the grief. I was anxious about what I wasn't getting done because I was sad because I wasn't doing enough work. And then I remember thinking someone told me, like, be careful, that you're not being so anxious, that you're not actually processing the grief. And so it's just especially, like you said, in our in our culture, what they're not really wanting, what I'm also noticed about processing grief is that, oh so often, like, people want, I've committed this myself, like, No, I want you to process grief this particular way, right? I'm trying to help someone and like, you need to process this grief and Nope, they're not processing it like I am. Most of my family does not process grief in the same way I do.
Janelle Orion 14:53
Oh my gosh. It's so true. It's so true. Damasa, who we've had on this podcast before, she's a ritualist. Heart, and actually does specializes in grief, and does grief rituals, and is on her Instagram, she's showcasing how some people think, Oh, if I'm in grief, it's supposed to look I'm just crying all the time. Yeah. And she's like, No, you can actually also be laughing and dancing in one minute, and then the next minute you're crying, yes, and the next minute you're laughing, and the next minute you're crying and can't get out of bed, and then the next minute you're okay, because the sun is shining, and so that there is this real undulating wave of emotions, like grief isn't just one thing that looks stuck in stagna a certain way the whole time. Yeah, and it
Andrea Enright 15:43
also, just like we talk about being external processors, some people are internal processors. Some people are gonna take, are gonna process the grief three months after, some people are gonna process the grief immediately. I have a friend who literally did not process the grief of her husband's death for a year, like she was kind of stuck, in a sense, in a PTSD state, right? And
Janelle Orion 16:08
and then no judgment on that, that just sometimes,
Andrea Enright 16:11
no, she just so she had to go through it. Like, you know, she was seeing therapists, she was doing all she could, but, like, wasn't ready yet. It wasn't ready to come out. So, and
Janelle Orion 16:19
it is, in that way coming out, like, grief is of the body, right? If it's a somatic experience, yeah. And so our tendency, when we suppress it, means that we're kind of, like closing it in, like pushing it down and closing the door. And so remember, like somatic exercises, if you were going to see a therapist, I would see, like a somatic therapist, someone who's gonna like, have you do movement, absolutely. So how about to say, right, who you are in this very moment, sounds like there's a discovery of a new, say, new version. But in this question, a different version, a different version that, before wondering, can this person, my husband, relate to you, right? Can you discover who you are? Yeah, through,
Andrea Enright 17:08
and I remember. So we chatted a little bit more with this person and who's really also getting into the idea of like, do you have resistance to the real you, right? Like, art. Can you be accepting of the real you before you think about your husband like you know, how can you look at the at this different you and discover with compassion, without judgment, with acceptance? Because it will be something different. You know, you're accustomed to living in this Greek kind of post grief state or grief state, and that's looked very familiar to you. It's very easy. You know it well, and this is going to look it's going to look different. And that's gonna be hard, yes,
yeah, yeah,
Janelle Orion 17:46
such a good question, yeah,
Andrea Enright 17:47
really, really, just a beautiful exchange we have there at the brief heart conversation.
Janelle Orion 17:52
Next question is, in excavating a deep male wound, a pattern has woven fear and anger towards them as I prepare to be open in a conscious partnership, how do I reprogram my subconscious patterning? I've read plenty about the divine masculine and it feels like more of a Disney fairy tale, yeah. So I think acknowledging right that you're recognizing the subconscious patterning around the masculine. Yeah. I mean, we did an episode here called trigger warning. Janelle journey from feminist to feminine. That's right, really having to navigate what ultimately was a projection on to the masculine outside of myself. Was me really coming into relationship with a feminine inside of me. It's interesting paradox. So I recommend reading Allison Armstrong the Queen's code and the keys to the kingdom, which she provides, like a women's perspective on the male psyche. And that that book really helps me see my subconscious patterning. But not the first time I read it, yeah, that was it. Like it, yeah, I read
Andrea Enright 19:04
most of it. And I would say it just was also, like, there would be a trigger warning on that for me, that was not, it was very fairy tale ish, and I didn't like it. And I saw, I could see what was good, but there was a little too much of too much narrative, too much sappy narrative to wade through to get to that.
Janelle Orion 19:29
Yeah. So the first time I read it, I would say it just like went over my head, it didn't land. And then I read it again after I read keys to the kingdom, and it really what I found with that book. I can see what you're talking about with, like the fairy tale. It is, it is written. I mean, it is actually written intentionally as such, correct, yeah. But I love how Alison Armstrong really calls me out as the reader on. My own behaviors and assumptions and has me question them, and then has me look at them in real life. It's not like she's saying. Just, believe me, the exercises at the end of the book are like you have an art at the end of each chapter give you an opportunity to see, oh, is this true in my life? How am I showing up in relation to this? And so in that way, I was testing for myself this hypothesis about this, quote, unquote, traditional male values, these characteristics of the masculine. Yes, agree that I had been in resistance to because of my conditioning of like, why? Really, ultimately, what it comes down to is wanting the masculine to be more like the feminine. And instead of acknowledging it, it's actually two different things. And when are each one useful, if you will, by in any given moment, and that's then COVID into the internal state of like. I believe that we each have our the masculine and the feminine within us, and a big part of my journey at one point years ago, as someone who had led with her masculine for most of my life, to come to the part of my journey where I was like, Oh, I actually trust my feminine. And when I trust my when I started to trust my own feminine, I already trusted and respected my own masculine right? But then that, that internal dialog, then I started putting that outside of me. The Queen's code also showed me all the ways I did not honor men in my life, and how I didn't like the feeling of not being honored. But then saw how I was not honoring, yeah, and
Andrea Enright 21:39
I would agree that the book, if you can get past kind of this, the way it's told in the beginning, it's hard to buy. You're just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard all this. Like, I don't like, if there's anger at the masculine or if there's some sort of resistance, you have to work to overcome it. Yeah, and that's and that. So the book, I just feel like the book doesn't really help me. Didn't really help me do that. I had to fight to get even though I think the messages are true and good, I think I would have preferred if there was out there something that acknowledges or that, at least in my memory of reading the book in the beginning, like, we get it, like, here's what you've been spoon fed, here's what you've been told. For some reason it, I can still remember reading it, even in Costa Rica, and thinking, like, oh my god, this just, I just want to throw up. Like it was really just didn't sit well with me. And I think, I also think there's great things in it, because, like, you I did take a couple of those things and those practices or exercises and think, oh, yeah, it's true. Like, I'm resistant to looking at my own prejudice of the masculine. And
Janelle Orion 22:53
I think that's ultimately the I there's plenty of other books I can give you, especially ones about data, data that are harder to digest, you know, because this is actually still get written from the female perspective, reading books about the divine masculine from the male perspective takes. There's a lot of like, I was like, oh, oh. Like, because,
right, interesting.
That's good point. But I hear you and you know, here's, this is like, this is my go to book and recommendation. And Alison Armstrong also has other resources. I don't know if she's got, she's got programs and offerings and stuff, but I do believe it is our work as women to navigate this. If we want to be in a healthy relationship with a man, then we have to look at ourselves and do the hard, deep work with ourselves about and again, it's coming back to what I was saying earlier, that I believe all of us have this Like masculine and feminine, like dynamic between us, yeah, and that, until that actually heals within ourselves,
Andrea Enright 24:07
within us, not between us, within us, within us, yeah,
Janelle Orion 24:11
then our relationships outside of us, like our partnerships and our conscious partnerships, were still gonna be challenged. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 24:20
yes, totally true for me. I had, I mean, yeah, I defined my feminine through someone else, and then go find my feminine on my own, and then could understand how I could repair the dynamic, yeah, the feminine and masculine in my marriage. Yes,
Janelle Orion 24:35
absolutely beautifully said. And I think so fucking painful, right? I mean, it's like gears turning. They're rusted, and it was like of me before I got to the point where I was like, Oh, that's my feminine. I'm leading with my feminine. Whoa.
Andrea Enright 24:56
Oh, my God, so hard. So, I mean. Summary, like, with this, going back to this question, you know we were saying, like, okay, let's not judge your own feelings. Let's not force yourself to be reprogrammed in any way. We always fear what we don't understand, and so try to understand. And let's dig in, inquire and be curious about your own feminine and masculine, and then creating the intimacy with that that makes it easier to create the intimacy with the masculine and feminine and someone else. Yeah. So beautiful. Yeah.
Janelle Orion 25:29
So I'm gonna add, like, another twist to this, and just go a little bit even deeper. Is where I'm at on my journey now is that I have, I have deep respect for the masculine. It does not mean that every single man I respect, yay,
Andrea Enright 25:47
that's so true, right? Like, yes, the masculine is not all men,
Janelle Orion 25:52
right? And that there are as much as I respect, all I do respect all the men who are in my life, right? It doesn't mean that I would be in conscious partnership and in surrender with every single one of them, that there are levels like as in this question here, and she's saying she's preparing herself for to be in conscious partnership, that that requires to be very discerning of who you're choosing to be in conscious partnership with, and not because they you're putting them on a pedestal. It's because you are saying you're really clear on your own boundaries, your own desires, your own wants, and then being able to discern who can help meet you there. And that for me, right? Is like, Oh, I'm I'm single in this moment. I don't know when that a person is going to come in, who's going to meet me at that level, yeah, but I'm really clear now that like, oh, not every man who's Canadian, they can be beautifully masculine men. Not every man is going to deserve all of me, and it's up to me to decide who does so.
Andrea Enright 27:09
The next question was, are intimacy and purpose closely linked? When I get very close to my partner, there is a small little piece of me that I keep hidden. Is this okay? Because I feel like if I didn't hide it, I would get closer and have a better connection with my partner?
Janelle Orion 27:34
So is the question, Is this okay that she does she want to keep it hidden, or is she wanting to get closer to her partner? No, she wants
Andrea Enright 27:44
to get closer to her partner, but she's keeping this little piece of foil. Actually, she just calls this little like tin foil piece to herself, and she wishes she could completely surrender and open up completely, and that would create a better connection with her partner, but she doesn't want to, she doesn't want to surrender it.
Janelle Orion 28:04
So questions that come up for me, for this person, right? Because there's always, it's always, I think it's really good to understand shared definitions. What does she imagine it would look like if that piece of foil was not there? What expectation does she have with herself? Like, what's the feeling of that? And then what if she let go of form? Does she have a sense of what that foil has to do with
Andrea Enright 28:30
Yeah, my sense is just that she's like, well, I just want to keep a little piece of me just for me. And she struggles with the sort of selfishness of that she's deeming she doesn't use the word selfish. She just felt like she shouldn't keep it all to herself and but she wants to be closer
Janelle Orion 28:47
to her partner, so maybe I misunderstood this. Is this in intimacy, like when they're having sex, or like in their life, and I
Andrea Enright 28:55
think it's probably both. We discussed, like, the meaning, like, what's intimacy with yourself look like? What does intimacy with your husband look like? And can you do both at the same time? You know? I mean, and I think you, of course, you can, right? But I think that's what she wants. And, I mean, I just questioned, like, what if there's nothing wrong with keeping a little bit for yourself? Like, that's okay. Like, it seems like there's a judgment that she's not supposed to do that,
Janelle Orion 29:23
right? I hear, I'm hearing that, and also this is reminding me of your Ha, right? Does she think that there's supposed to be an A, like, oh, a relationship is supposed to be in an A, and she's actually in an H, and is judging herself for being in an H.
Andrea Enright 29:38
I think she's so just to review, brave hearts, like I've talked about before, about the A versus the H. When you're the A, there's two swing set poles, and they're melded together at the top, and it's closed, and you're connected in the middle. If one falls, the other one does two in an H, you're both on independent, individual paths, connected in the middle, building new rungs of connection. You go.
Janelle Orion 30:01
And so these are two like, this is how Andrea describes, like, a relationship format, style, yeah. This is
Andrea Enright 30:06
something that my husband and I thought of early on, heard about and thought, Oh, we want to be an H instead of an A, because we had seen a lot of marriages really, in a more a style. However, I don't think that she's an agent. Wants to be an A I think that she wants to have more satisfying intimacy in a sexual and truly intimate in bed realm. Okay? She wants to be closer, right? But she's like, there's something that's keeping her from, like, oh, I can't totally be myself.
Janelle Orion 30:36
Got it? Got it? Oh my gosh. I have so many questions. I know it's too late. I know which you know, we discussed a bunch of other stuff too. Yeah, yeah. So what makes me come up with this? Omarpani calls it the seven chakra relationship. Where are you connecting? At all of the levels? Are you connecting at your root chakra, at your sacral, at your heart, at your throat, mind and crown. And this is just now, I don't know, projection, but is she keeping, for example, part of her heart closed, right? But are there other areas that she's not connecting or connecting on, right? There's good question.
Andrea Enright 31:15
Yeah, I can see, I can see some curious about that, right? There's some things that are connecting all the way, and other things that are but would you say though, that, can't she keep the intimacy with herself and still be completely connected to her partner?
Janelle Orion 31:30
The words that are being used right now are what I don't want to say yes to that, because that word intimacy, to me is is not clear. Because the question seems to be, she's unsatisfied and unfulfilled with the sex with her husband, because there's a part of her that she's keeping back. And so if she was fulfilled, holding it back, I would say, then yes, of course. But what I'm hearing is that she's unfulfilled. Now, if she's unfulfilled, because she's supposed to be unfilled, and like, if it's not actually a true She's saying she's unfulfilled, but she actually is fulfilled, right? Then I see, then there's something there. But now I'm now I'm armchair, yeah? So if you don't know, no, no, enough, yeah, but what I will say is that putting yourself first in the way that, like we discussed, right? We use in the context of solo poly, but for sure, but in the context of, like, Oh, if I'm taking care of myself first, I know my needs. I know my desires. I'm asking for them, yeah. And then from there, being able to be met, then I'm holding my independence and my sovereignty and my agency and being able to go very deep and vulnerably and transparently in relationship, yeah, so that i Yes, I think is possible.
Andrea Enright 32:50
Okay, okay, cool, okay,
Janelle Orion 32:53
thanks, brave hearts for listening. We hope that you too will one day join us at a very hard conversation, either in person or online. And yeah, hope he gave you something to think about today. Well, you always get into the good stuff. Do you need permission to be human? You got it? Listen, subscribe and review on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about us at permission to be human. Dot live you.