Andrea and Janelle interview somatic couples therapist Dan Jedynak on how to talk about sex and intimacy in brave relationships. They explore embodying your desire, and the importance of curiosity, play, compassion and a TWO person system to find healthier dynamics and deeper connections. You’ll hear:
--The “me vs. we” mentality and why it matters
--The benefit of touching yourself!!! to understand what you want
--Where Leadership fits into sex talk
--How to change your relationship dynamic, with analogies to backroads
--How your tone of voice and body language says it all
--Why journaling our desires is a place to start
TRANSCRIPT:
Andrea Enright 0:01
Struggling to discuss sex and intimacy with your partner, not feeling met, seen or heard in your relationships. I'm Janelle And I'm Andrea. We're two midlife Mavericks sharing our own experiences, messy AF and no regrets with marriage, divorce, polyamory and pleasure. We've learned that when you're brave enough to figure out what you want and ask for it, with partners, friends, family and most importantly, yourself, you'll feel more alive and free question everything, especially your mother's advice. There's no rom com formula for this. But don't panic. Being alone matters, honey, I can't miss you if you don't leave,
Janelle Orion 0:40
what if your breakup could
Andrea Enright 0:41
be your breakthrough? Our podcast is for brave hearts.
Janelle Orion 0:45
Anyone who seeks or has found the courage to confront their fears and limiting beliefs about breaking societal norms in the spirit of finding their truth.
Andrea Enright 0:54
If you're seeking permission to be brave in your relationships and want to feel left alone along the way we got you.
So I loved interviewing Dan jednek, our couples therapist, about talking to your partner about sex and intimacy. He was like his whole energy was so soft and slow and embodied that, like it was just, it was a soothing conversation. Just that was, it was incredibly soothing. And reminded me to it can't be about me. It has to be about the we,
Janelle Orion 1:39
I agree and I loved his examples. They were so like they hit me so viscerally when he would give examples of tone, of voice, of oh, here's one way to say something or versus another way, and how one way was blaming and one way was inviting. I really loved how he focused on leadership, right? It required in order to talk to our partners about sex and intimacy. Requires leadership because we're in a groove, and if we want to get out of the groove, we have to do that together. Yeah. And then there is such a playful example, when he talked about talking to your breakfast, yes, which we're not gonna say any more about. You have to listen to listen to your whole episode. Talk to your breakfast as you prepare to talk to your partner about sex. And yeah, you have to listen to figure that out, yeah. But it was definitely that was that was a highlight at the end of the episode of it, we just had us both belly laughing, and that was really fun.
Andrea Enright 2:38
And I loved how he talked about how you really do have to shift a dynamic that's been present in a couple for a long time, like and there sometimes that is our that's our initial work if we want to have these courageous and different, difficult conversations
Janelle Orion 2:59
and but that requires going inward, right? And so he also gave examples of it's okay if you don't know exactly what you want, just knowing that you want something different was another takeaway that I took from him. And as long as you're bringing curiosity and a sense of discovery to what is possible,
Andrea Enright 3:19
let's go down the path together and figure this out. That's what he said. Yeah. So
Janelle Orion 3:26
here we go, brave hearts, we're going down the path with Dan jednek,
welcome to permission to be human. Brave hearts.
We're excited for you to be here today as we've evolved for the past two years, 75 episodes, we've realized the most common theme across permission to be human is learning to be brave in relationships. It's all about that,
Andrea Enright 3:50
and we know what you want, because across our in real life, Braveheart conversations, across the last six months, they have revealed some very common and very fascinating questions. So we've
Janelle Orion 4:03
decided for season three that we're going to be spending our time answering these questions in a really deep way.
Andrea Enright 4:11
So every three months, we'll pick one question, and across 12 episodes, we will interview experts, we'll interview each other, and we will interview Bravehearts, so that we can be and learn actually to be brave in relationships, one crisis, one late night conversation and one celebration at a time. This
Janelle Orion 4:30
format is inspired by our brave heart coaching model, and we want to bring the permission and depth we offer to individual brave hearts to all of you, our listeners and
Andrea Enright 4:40
the first question that we'll cover, as you may have heard, is, drum roll please. How do I talk to my partner about sex and intimacy? Turns out a really common question that lots of people are struggling with, so we're pleased on this episode to present our first. First expert interview. So Dan judnack has a deep passion for life, music, movement and connection are what keep his soul alive, love that he's worked with individuals and couples through somatic approaches to help them break free of unhelpful patterns and step into a more empowered, harmonious relationship with themselves and the world around them. Dan's work approaches healing as having two essential parts, healing from the past while increasing emotional resilience and strengthening the empowered self. It's somatic therapy with an emphasis on empowerment. Dan, we're so excited to have you here. Welcome to permission to be human. Thanks for joining us today.
Dan Cooney 5:50
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm very, very excited to be here and talk about all of this. Yes,
Andrea Enright 5:56
so perfect. So my first question is like, what excites you about this topic and why? Why did you want to be on the podcast?
Dan Cooney 6:05
Hmm, there's an inherent edginess to this topic. It's very human. It's very relatable. And I think there's a way we can all or, you know, people that feel that can be united in this sense of like this is edgy, and how do we figure this out together? And that's like a lot of what and what inspires me to explore this topic on my own, explore conversations around sex and to talk about them. Dan,
Janelle Orion 6:36
I've got a question for those who don't know, what does somatic mean? When you talk about, like somatic therapy, can you just give a definition of what that is? Yeah,
Dan Cooney 6:47
very simply, it's working with the body. It's the mind body connection. Yeah, it's like feelings, they arise from the body. It's a way of getting more in touch with the body ourselves. And I think a key to this topic, too is desire. Desire is very body connected. It's not necessarily just a mind process. So
Andrea Enright 7:13
yeah, that definitely taps into a lot of what we talk about in the podcast, the mind versus the body. We spend so much time in our minds. Probably, I probably spent most of the time in my mind for the first, you know, couple decades of my life. And tapping into your body is another thing I just want to first acknowledge how you said, like, this is an edgy topic, and I love that you just embraced that from the beginning, right? Because it is an edgy topic, and, God, how can we make it a less edgy topic, right? How can we make it just, you know, just like, how can we normalize it? Because it is a conversation we probably have to have a lot, because a lot of us are having sex, and a lot of us are with partner or with a lover. And I just, I love that you called that out right away. So thank you. Yeah, so the mind body connection, I love that you mentioned that. So as part of your somatic work, can you speak a little bit to how you help people get out of their mind and into their body? In
Dan Cooney 8:13
my work, I mean, starting with a one on one frame, often when someone is speaking, the body is still informing what's happening. And so if someone is talking, maybe they're moving their hands, maybe their head is moving, their spine is moving. And part of what I do is help cue the story into the like sensations that are happening at the same time, the emotions that are happening. It's a way of in the present moment, yeah, connecting the dots and what happens in the body. It's, it's, it's like a doorway into the unconscious. So it lets, it lets you know the self more when you know that, okay, maybe I'm talking and my spine is straight and my stomach is vibrating like there's a sense of aliveness coming from that, as opposed to, yeah, talking from a different posture, or being more contracted, and which both are fine, but it can be so healing to have awareness of these processes. So I
Andrea Enright 9:17
think I'm hearing you just like, say that as you're talking just starting to notice like what's going on in your body and how you can connect that to what's being said.
Dan Cooney 9:26
Yeah, and, and part of it is we can't necessarily discover it on our own at first, otherwise we already would have, and that that's part of why I believe somatic therapy exists. It's, it's, it's people that have studied for years and years to learn how to connect these dots. And then what I love about this work is it's not the healing doesn't just happen in a session. It's a way of life. It's learning, oh, here's this way that I can actually, oh, I'm seeing how this person is held. Thing guide me in this present moment, I'm learning it's like learning a transmission of body, mind connection, and then it and then it integrates into life.
Andrea Enright 10:09
Wow. It's a life practice, yes, yeah,
Dan Cooney 10:13
yeah. And then the same thing can happen with couples, with not just learning your own cues, but learning how much you can actually read subconsciously from the other person. So with my couple's work, it's then, it's more that it's how is eye contact affecting the present moment? How is body language affecting the present moment? So a similar thing, like open the doorways, tone of voice is a huge one.
Andrea Enright 10:40
And I noticed in some of your work, you talk about tone of voice quite a bit, like the vocal cords and the quality of those even I'm talking about the throat chakra. Can you tell me more about how that's part of your work?
Dan Cooney 10:54
Yeah, I think especially when it comes to conversations with your partner, the way that we bring in, say, a question, or bring in the, you know, the topic of sex, it will have a different impact with depending on how we're we're there and we're present with them. And it's, of course, like words matter too. But even just an example, like saying, I want to talk about our sex life is different than like. I want to talk about our sex life, right? There's like a different aliveness, like comes in, in a different way, a different kind of inviting and again, it's like having awareness of the power of the subtlety of that can go a long way
Janelle Orion 11:41
beautiful. I love that example. Like, there's a subtlety of so, so different and yet, like, and just so subtle. Janelle, did you have you have a question? Yeah? I mean, I love tone of voice. For me, is something that really can get me activated and learning how to Yeah, I feel it in my body. Because the other part, like, it might be that the person saying it a certain way, but it also was my own story of what I'm putting into that tone of voice. So it goes both ways. Right? Is that, would you agree with that? Dan, yeah, absolutely. How do
Andrea Enright 12:16
I take that story out? Right? When it's, like, been there for so long, and it's in my head, and I'm like, I think of sex this way. Sex means this to me. Is there a prep I can do before that conversation, or before any of these conversations to help me kind of step out of that past dynamic or story? Yeah,
Dan Cooney 12:34
I something I was, I like to think about it is like and relationships have grooves, and these grooves can groove pretty deep of patterns, relational patterns, and that can involve intimacy and sex too. And it really takes being a leader to get out of a groove. There's a lot of inertia there, and not only is if someone, in, say, a couple, wants a shift around sex, not only are they changing their own pattern, but like I believe, it takes a willingness to be a leader into inviting the other person to make A change to it's almost like two people's inertia there. So, yeah, there's, there's a way it's like, that takes a lot of, a lot of courage. And I think recognizing, like, yeah, recognizing the innate challenge, I think can, can be helpful to bring some compassion to the process in general. And then I think a second part is, if change is wanted, what is the change that's wanted? It's one thing to to say. Why is our sex life so boring? There's kind of a one part system there. There's a finger pointing that happens a little bit, and it's very different. If right, maybe that hinted a desire. But what really is the desire of change? What do you want more of? What do you want less of? Is there an idea of what it can look like? Did some book inspire something new to try right, like almost having to really embody that leadership, like having something to bring, not necessarily just naming that it's that it's off or wrong.
Andrea Enright 14:32
Okay, I've took so many, so many questions, so want to talk about the desire, but first you said something about a dynamic and the grooves, right? Which is like this. I just can very much relate to this and that I feel like coming home to myself and my husband, coming home to himself, I have said, become a phrase I've used a lot, is like that we repaired a damaged dynamic that was established. When we were in our 20s, right? And so I think it sounds like you're saying, like it takes both people to say, okay, like we have to get out of this groove. And if only one person is doing it, it just that you can lead, but the other person has to be willing to follow, right? Absolutely,
Dan Cooney 15:16
yeah. And even if there is a leader, yeah, it takes, it takes both people, and I think same with being a leader, right? I mean, some, some of this is easier said than done, but you know that you're not going to necessarily lead by by blaming the other person. I've never heard that
Janelle Orion 15:34
lead by blaming really.
Andrea Enright 15:38
Is that a good way to start, because it's totally worked for me.
Dan Cooney 15:42
And it could be so sneaky. It's amazing how sneaky it can. It can, it can end up in the in the communication. But what it's like to really be a two person system, I love calling it. What is the we? How do we think of this as a we? And we are getting there? Yeah,
Andrea Enright 16:00
I love this two person system, but you spoke about desire, and that Janelle just sort of reminds me of you. And I think there's something that that she taught me a lot about, and we learned together was like, okay, great, yes, like, I need to talk about my desire, but shit, I don't know what I want. And so sometimes it feels like it has to be a prep step before that conversation to figure out what you want. So how do you do that? Yeah,
Dan Cooney 16:28
like, sometimes it is inspiration. Sometimes it's a book. It's it's being willing to Google. I don't know what I want, insects and I want something, right? And really letting it be your own discovery, right? So that that's one thing. There's, there's the like willing to own the discovery in and some of it, yeah, there's, there's definitely different ways to go with this conversation. But there's, there's the body component too. What does the body desire? And sometimes we learn that by even asking our own bodies or noticing, like, Hi, I've noticed insects. I like really slow, light touch instead of or I have a preference for that right now over hard and firm and right? It's like, okay, recognizing that. And then, how do I how do I really understand what this is showing me? Right? Our bodies have so much wisdom for what we enjoy and like and so. So even letting our our everyday experience tell us what we desire,
Janelle Orion 17:39
it. Can you give an example when you say, our everyday experience of what we desire, like, how are another example of how our body is communicating that? Because what I might guess is that most of us actually are not listening to our body, and that's why we don't know what it's saying. Yeah,
Dan Cooney 17:55
and you know it can be, I mean, it's happening all the time in terms of, are we tired? Do we need to rest? Are we hungry, and do we eat? Or are we eating based on a clock of time? And I think the more that we pay attention, even through the day, the more often we train the body mind connection to recognize, Yeah, same, same here. I think there's a lot of directions to go. I think even having a self, like a self embodied, like sensual exploration practice, like, what's it like touching your own body? If you touch your arms, notice what you like with your fingers? Is it is it slow? Is it fast? Yeah,
Janelle Orion 18:45
I love that. I remember talking to my to my stepson, actually, and, you know, he's 30, and he was saying, the power as a man to be guided to touch yourself was really life changing for him, because he he had conditioned himself that touch only really came from another woman, from a woman in his world. So the idea that, Oh, his own touch could actually be informative and nourishing was really quite revelatory. And it was revelatory for me too to hear it that way, because it actually applied to me too. But I love that he said it specifically coming from the male perspective.
Dan Cooney 19:28
Yeah, it's not something you you hear about often. It's almost, it's almost radical, in a way, without talking about it like this, yeah,
Andrea Enright 19:38
Dean, can you tell us, like, some common missteps that people make in communicating with their partner about sex and intimacy and like how they can avoid those is that, are there some things you see again and again that you're helping people unlearn and learn?
Dan Cooney 19:53
Yeah, I'd say the biggest thing is where it can feel. Like the one, the one person system, I'm in this alone, and I have to figure this out by myself, and I'm not getting help when that is like a sneaky mentality versus really a trust and belief that we can grow, I think and go, a lot of it has that foundation. And yeah, even questions like, like, why isn't our sex better? Or, why do we never have sex that? Yeah, there's something in that that's like, there can be, like, a subtle blaming in that, right? It's like, oh, it's me against something that's happening. And it very much can relate to this very common dynamic that happens all over the place of one person is pursuing something and but maybe it's got a flavor of criticism in it, or I want something to change, or there's an intensity, and it very naturally polarizes a defensiveness to it, a withdrawing, like, Oh, I'm, oh, wow, I thought things were fine. I'm, you know, I'm being I'm being attacked. And then in that defending, it's actually creating more disconnection. It's creating more pulling back, which is the opposite of the really, the deeper intent, and then all of a sudden there's this cycle of disconnect. And instead, the the two, this like two person system, the we system it. It really takes a a willing to own that every groove takes two people to be in that groove. And that there can be a sense of like, like, an example might be, you know, we don't, we don't have sex that much, and I realize I'm contributing to that reality, and I'd like to shift that and feel more alive. I have some ideas. What do you think? Do you want to like, let's talk about it, right? There's this we and this ownership that gets to happen, that it's like our words can also create the we invite in the collaboration.
Janelle Orion 22:13
I just felt in my system when it's like that one, like that phrase that you just said, oh, like, I'm noticing this, and I know I'm a contributor, and I would inviting us to change, right? I just felt in my system, like such an invitation and an appreciation of, oh, okay, like, it's not all on me, right? That, oh yeah, it was really impactful. I just like, it was such a visceral experience
Andrea Enright 22:40
in my body, there's, there's just, like, such a softness to it, right, like, there's just like, oh, like, so I, like, we could have used you like, a really, like, years ago. This would have been so good, so much better than the poly therapist we had, I have to say, like that. You know, she was fine, but like, not like this, like this, this is really good. So I guess, like, what comes the question that comes up for me is, oh, why does it take so much courage to do that? It's like, so much easier just to accuse, you know, or not mean to accuse, but to say, like, aren't we having sex? Like, not that I didn't, and I didn't do that. But I think there's this subtle otherness. So I guess it's just, it's, it takes a lot of courage, is what I'm hearing.
Dan Cooney 23:29
Yeah, I really believe it takes courage. It's also right, like, this is this, is I ideal, and there, really, there really, can be an easier, like, a sense of, okay, you know, it's one thing to say. It easier said than done. And there's a reality where with with trigger and tension, there can be a feeling of like we're being hijacked by our own triggers, right? And I think with this, the ingredient to slow down always helps. Slowing it down. And I think, like even before, a lot of this spending time with the desire, spending time with the like, the vision of where it can go, it's the pre work to the conversation. I believe can really ground,
Janelle Orion 24:22
ground the process. So when you say that, like spending time with a desire for someone who doesn't know what the desire is like, what they're kind of fixated on is they know they don't feel fulfilled or satisfied. And there is so now we're you're naming okay, but there's a desire there. Then what's that desire? So now they have to, like, go into themselves somehow, whether asking Google or looking at movies or reading books in poetry or something that is inspiring a feeling inside them. And then, is there more to it than that? Is it to take shape? Is it to write about it? To journal it? At it, how to get more embodied in it before to ever even ask them for what they want? Yeah.
Dan Cooney 25:07
I love that question. It feels like there's a Yeah, like a bridging of the gap there. Yeah. I think, like writing about it, can go a long way right, and sometimes even the desire, right, if we want say something new, we don't totally know. Maybe there's just a sense of something, a sense of something to try. So even if the desire is a is a shared exploration into, you know, a certain, a certain flavor of intimacy, just to see it's like the interest is there enough, right? You might not know yet from experience, but there's something in you that's like calling, calling for it, wanting to try, and then it gets to be like an exploration, right? The same thing that can be finger pointing and cause a break. Can be like, Hey, look at, look at this path. Let's, let's go. We've never been here. Let's like, like, grab my hand. Let's go down this path. Sounds
Andrea Enright 26:11
so soothing. Just a totally different frame. I just want to, like, recap, it's like, I hear, I'm hearing you say, less me more. We in that by inadvertently finger pointing, causes polarization, causes defensiveness, and then causes disconnection. And I think those are just important steps that I am recognizing as you're talking about them, like, oh yeah, that's what happens, right? Just in like five seconds, right? The tone, oh yeah, someone's like, being attacked, like mentally pulling away. And so my question is, like, I guess it's just like concrete tips and techniques, right? So I just heard you say, like, writing about your desire beforehand, great, when you're in that moment, and you feel a trigger, or you feel something in your body like, is there a way you recommend to come back that you can practice in the moment, so that the conversation can ground or stabilize,
Dan Cooney 27:14
so even awareness beforehand of these kind of push pull cycles can go along the way, and that, I think that's one of the powerful pieces of couples therapy, is two people can learn together that, oh, sometimes we get into these cycles that are more about the energy and even, like inner wounding, rather than what we're trying to talk About. And then they can be spotted together, and that's, that's something I help people see too, is like, I mean, sometimes even naming it like, Oh, this is a cycle, or, okay, we're in a pattern. We're in a disconnect. And even just that can help pop out of the system, and from there, it might mean like, oh, okay, we're doing that thing. I just need to walk around the house a bit like, do some push ups, take some breaths, like a quick break, to come back, or right part of it is, what is, yeah, there might be, there might be different realities of what's needed. It could be as simple as, yeah, I just need a few breaths. Oh, right. Not the cycle. Let's do the we thing, right? It can, it can even be that simple depending. But it's also, it's new grooves. And again, like new grooves, take time. So even that, the compassion in the process of it takes time, yeah, but simply put, slowing down, slowing down, taking some breaths,
Janelle Orion 28:49
yeah, what I heard was curiosity, like that was one of the big invitations. So of it's okay if you don't know what you want, and the you know, the willingness to be curious about discovering and as you said, like walking down the path together, holding hands, doesn't mean you're gonna like the view at the first overlook, right? It's like, oh, we're here. We tried this thing. I don't really love it. You might or might not love it, but let's, let's keep going. What else is out here, right? I mean, I think that that is a fear that I have had at different times of, oh, I'm supposed to know what I like, and that means I'm gonna like that thing for the rest of my life as well. Like the weight of what I like means I can never change my mind again.
Dan Cooney 29:36
Yeah, right. I love that idea that, yeah, it's a it's a continuous discovery and and also, I think, right with the we system, even if sharing desires comes from a place of, oh, let's explore this desire together. And yeah, like, what is do you want to do you want to do this with me? Yeah, it can be so. Amazing to bring in the curiosity intentionally, to ask questions. Yeah, how do you want to feel during our sex, in our intimate moments? Or, yeah, what were some like highlight moments that we've had in the past, like harvesting from where we've been, right and so, so even right, it can be bringing in your own desires and a curiosity to almost like water that the garden of that mindset in the relationship. I think
Andrea Enright 30:34
I'm also hearing that that hasn't been said yet, but seems like it's true, because there's, there's, like, we kept, keep talking about sex, right? Which sex is, sort of traditionally, you know, are we talking about, like, penetration? Like, really, I think what we're talking about here is like, it can be just touched, right? It's like, and so, would you say you like, end up broadening your client's definition of sex, or does your client's definition of sex change over time?
Dan Cooney 31:02
Interesting? Definitely. I would say people's definition of intimacy and that space in general can change quite a bit. Like even just as an example, there can be a whole, a whole other exploration, if there's an intimate or sexual type of exploration where it's it's actually, it's not about penetration, it's not about sex. And yeah, I mean, even just to plant a seed, like, what if we don't have sex this time and see what? See what else happens? If you know, even just to see we take that off the table, what else? What else shows up. And then, right? I think even in there, there's an embodied definition of, oh, yeah, sensuality, sexuality, intimacy, can look these different ways. It can take other pathways, maybe from the familiar one that repeats.
Janelle Orion 32:13
Dan, obviously you're individual and couples counselor teaching these skills. Do you have any examples that you can share, either from client perspective or from your own life, where you know you've had, you've had some wins, or maybe even some losses, as you've like, okay? Because what we try to tell brave hearts is that this is, this is a brave journey. None of these skills we learn overnight, and so that they're all practices.
Dan Cooney 32:38
I think it's just a very sensitive topic in general, money and sex, two very sensitive topics, and sometimes they're avoided for a reason, because they're so sensitive. And even if a couple that does really well most days and around most topics bringing this up, can just really, really get to deep, deep pieces and parts of shame and past experiences. So sometimes it can feel like going backwards before going forwards, when the topic is really, yeah, like actually brought with vulnerability. And I yeah, I would say the most, the most common thing is forgetting the two, the two person system, and going into the one person system like that. I mean, that's it's so common in relationship for that to happen, and even people that know it and have been practicing that mindset for years, forget, but I think part of it is coming back to it again, back to the we dan,
Andrea Enright 33:46
is there? Is there anything that, like we haven't talked about, that you feel like you often touch like, touch on, a touch on in your in your work like, that's always coming up, yeah, that you feel like is really important when talking to your partner about into seeing sex, this
Dan Cooney 34:04
can even touch into practice later. But I think, yeah, more of the sense of like practicing, even just bringing like what it takes to bring the conversation, to start the conversation, I think, I think that's such a key moment. Like, what does it feel like in your body? Is, is there, yeah, like, is, is someone really in their anxiety as they're talking about this? Are they in their like sense of, you know, can you feel a belief that, like, yeah, change is possible. This can really work. The mindset and the belief brought into the conversation can really help. And I think it's under, under looked at how much actual, like, how much work and intention that that can take beforehand. And I think with that, like, idea. Is that help with that is like writing, like writing desires down, like spending time, like as even as a solo practice, like really fostering, yeah, the what's wanted here, yeah? Like holding, coming, coming into the conversation as a leader. Yeah, it can. It can include, you know, personal somatic therapy in general, like I, I think go, it goes a long way. Somatic therapy can kind of help someone be more aware of not just their interstates, but their impact, or just practices like that, like very like, reflective practices to under, to have more understanding of, yeah, like, how to use our voice and our energy to invite
Janelle Orion 35:54
what I'm hearing from that is, before we even start a conversation, is to go inward first to really get clear on what it is that we're desiring, even if it were what we're clear on is we don't know what the thing is. We just know we want something different, and so we want to bring, we wanted the opportunity to bring curiosity and discovery to something but then what I'm also hearing is some of us don't have the training I did not before all this that we are communicating in lots of ways besides just our words, our words are one part of communication, but so is how we're holding Our body and how our energetic body is also communicating. And if we've never paid attention to those things, and I think all of those equal the somatic piece that you're speaking to, then maybe actually the greater contributor to why there's a disconnect than we've ever realized.
Dan Cooney 36:59
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, and even just to get scientific for a moment, our, like, our prefrontal cortex is processing information at, you know, at some speed. Actually, I don't know how to measure that speed, but our animal brain is picking up so much more information than even what we're consciously understanding, and there's a 10 times faster processing speed. It's that like lightning fast reaction that's our animal brain, and we pick up threats around our environment, and that can even include a look of disapproval from our partner, or a contraction of their face or their or their shoulders, and that's registering way faster than than we even recognize if we recognize it at all. Do
Andrea Enright 37:56
you see a difference? Like, do I mean, what's the age range of the clients you see? And I would think that a, you know, 29 year old couple versus a 55 year old couple would just, you know, they grew up at different times and, like, they sing the world differently. Like, do you have different tools for different stages of life, or is it all really the same? Yeah,
Dan Cooney 38:15
I work with all age ranges, and I I think, yeah. I mean, it really all, it's really all the same human bodies, or human bodies. I think, yeah, with different couples, definitely there's different tools that stick in different ways. Some really noticing the somatic is like, Yeah, a couple will really link on to like, wow, even just noticing the things I never noticed before has is setting us free. And for other people, more of the mental of, oh, there's a pursuer, withdraw, push, pull cycle. And how do we spot that in the energy, it's more like the energy of the words, even, rather than what's happening somatic. So a lot of that is adjusting to the way the couple orients. But I see, yeah, I wouldn't say I see a pattern with that around age. Honestly, yeah.
Andrea Enright 39:19
Do you have a particular assignment for brave hearts? For, you know, thoughts about, like, where to start if they're really at this point? Do they should they prepare and try? Should they come see a somatic therapist and and what? What would that journey look like? I guess I'm asking two questions. What is the assignment, and how long do people typically work with you? You know, is it like, I think, just caveating that, you know, with the therapist, a lot of people are like, okay, yeah, when it let's, let's get this done, right? It's costing money, like, can we just move it along? I definitely have worked with people who are just like, Okay. I don't I only have, like, three months, right? And I know this, just these things just take a long time. So where to begin, and how to keep stay patient, and how long do people work with you? Three questions,
Dan Cooney 40:14
yeah, I think, I think so much of it depends on homework, and how much a couple is willing to, like, if, if we get through a session and something is harvested that's really helpful, like, do they remember this every day in between sessions, I think has a huge impact. I've, I've seen people change their their patterns and awareness very fast. And, you know, a handful of sessions and other people long time, months. And I think, I think part of it is, yeah, a willing, a willingness to to look and to practice. And in terms of practice, yeah, I think besides the relationship itself, like practicing being in the desires, practicing your own embodiment of desires and conversations like practice hearing the words come out of your mouth, like, like even like, talk to your Talk to your breakfast. Say you're you're cooking eggs, and you've got your eggs cooking on the pan with butter and onion, and you say, I want to get you so hot, I want to flip you over and put you in my mouth. I love it. Try it out, like hear it in your voice. See what it's like. Just speak from this
making love your breakfast. I cannot wait for breakfast tomorrow. What am I gonna do with my chia pudding? As my chia pudding slides across my tongue, what is happening? Yeah,
absolutely. And I'm, I mean, I'm being somewhat playful and not fully realistic. Like if you're talking sexy to your breakfast and your your partner's sitting at the table with your four year old, like that might not improve your sex life, but, but for real, like practice in the car. I legitimately practice my voice in the car all the time, whether it's like singing, that's a separate thing, but also like, yeah, like trying things on, trying on a conversation, trying on what I want to say, and hearing it in my voice, hearing it vibrate in different parts of my body. Am I like, stuck in my in my throat, and is it contracted or or is is like my my chest vibrating, my heart and my body vibrating with what I'm trying to say? And yeah, I mean this, yeah, connects to somatic awareness, somatic therapy and and also just playing around with your own body. Dan, I
Andrea Enright 43:01
have to ask what I should have asked in the beginning, like, what brought you to this work? Yeah,
Dan Cooney 43:05
I'm just a relational nerd, relationship nerd. It's just Yeah. Connection is so rich a big part of my life, yeah? And, like, before learning it and teaching it, I had my own, you know, I would get caught in cycles. I mean, I think most people do until they're aware of them. So I think, yeah, my own healing journey, my own mind body connection journey, yeah, and it's, it's like, so live. I like, I like the emotional like, it's getting crazy. Let's, how do we do this? It's, it's, yeah, it's very alive. I love the aliveness of couples work, and the like, depth and truth of individual work. Yeah,
Janelle Orion 43:51
I love that you actually brought in play at the end and had us both, you know, belly laughing. Because that, I think, is a big part of like, when we're stuck on something, we suddenly become so serious around it. How can we bring play in in any part of our life, any part of our lives feels, feels relevant. And then especially in this topic. I mean, really, the egg example of his hat, I was like, Oh, he's really going there. Wow. Okay, I'm aware I say so much in my head, right? And like the idea of actually saying it out loud to myself is vulnerable. I'm like, oh, so imagine if I got to practice hearing myself hear my own voice and then do that enough time so that when I'm ready to speak, speak it to somebody else.
Dan Cooney 44:46
Yeah, I love that nuance. Yeah, right, if we can't, if we can't hear it in ourselves, in the car, while we're alone, yeah, it's right. That's part of the practice, too.
Andrea Enright 44:59
Yeah. Well, we tell our. Partners, Janelle, this really reminds me of your pleasure pillars. Like, do you feel like sharing those?
Janelle Orion 45:05
Sure, yeah, like the pleasure pill. My pleasure pillars are the things that help me feel safe in my body, and they express differently in everyone. But so the one is to for my nervous system to feel relaxed. And so whatever that looks like that my I can recognize is relaxing my nervous system. The second one is trust, trust in myself, that I can speak my desires and boundaries in real time, speak my yeses in my nose, and that my partner can speak their desires and boundaries in real time, and then my laughter. So if all those things are present, then my pleasure can come online, but in the somatic realms, right? Like laughter is a state of being for me, so then that's helping me feel relaxed, but that maybe it requires my voice, my throat chakra being open enough to be able to speak, and my awareness of my body to speak in real time as changes are happening.
Andrea Enright 46:05
Yeah, I think Janelle, you just seem always playful. Like playful is like you are in your head, but you're so playful. Like this is gonna say that the eggs, I can totally see you doing that in the morning with your cacao.
Janelle Orion 46:18
I might even do a little like social media
post, but I will, don't forget, right, like I was the person who cried. I've cried and cried and cried around these conversations around sex and intimacy for you know, that was my journey. There was like poking and blaming that I was doing, for sure, but it was also like hurt and shame and sadness and rejection and all of that that was was coming out of me as well. So it took a while to bring playfulness back into in an area that I felt there was insecurity and sadness around
Andrea Enright 46:51
Dan. Thank you so much for being on permission to be human. We just so enjoyed this conversation. Me
Dan Cooney 46:59
too. This is so fun. Yeah, what a joy.
Janelle Orion 47:01
And brave hearts, if you want to find Dan, you can find him in our show notes and look him up. And actually, I just want to ask Dan, do you work with couples in person or online, or both? Both?
Thanks, Dan, hey, brave hearts. Brave hearts. We love you. Thank
you. See you next time. Bye.
Hey. Brave hearts, looking for permission,
Andrea Enright 47:26
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