Ep 102: How Janelle Found Spirit in Loss, Tantra, Deep Listening and Logistics: How to Build a Relationship with God Series

What does a relationship with the divine really look like? And how can it help us thrive in this double-dumpster-fire world? In this episode, Janelle details her journey from former-nun-and-priest-for-parents childhood to discovering spirit through tantra and psychedelic retreats. She reminds us that God doesn’t necessarily live in ritual--but instead in the resistance of our conditioning and the surrender to our deepest selves. Ultimately, she says, there is no one way to eat a Reeses have a relationship with the divine. There’s a nod to Human Design and Janelle’s church, Witness Sisterhood. You’ll hear:

-How Janelle’s spiritual awakening started with loss

-How to find spirituality in the mundane---even moving cross country

-Why TRUST is the beginning of your relationship with God

-All about the tussle between the mind and the ❤️

-The difference between the human self and the spirit self

-Why resisting your inner voice is the surest path to suffering

-How spirit lives in feelings, not words and sentences

-What your intuition and a very loud concert have in common

-A new definition of the less fortunate

-The power of decisions to demonstrate our deepest listening

TRANSCRIPT:

Janelle Orion 0:00

Janelle, struggling to discuss sex and intimacy with your partner, not feeling met, seen or heard in your relationships. I'm Janelle And I'm Andrea. We're two midlife Mavericks sharing our own experiences, messy, AF and no regrets with marriage, divorce, polyamory and pleasure. We've learned that when you're brave enough to figure out what you want and ask for it, with partners, friends, family and most importantly, yourself, you'll feel more alive and free question everything, especially your mother's advice. There's no rom com formula for this. But don't panic. Being alone matters, honey, I can't miss you if you don't leave, what if your breakup could be your breakthrough? Our podcast is for brave hearts. Anyone who seeks or has found the courage to confront their fears and limiting beliefs about breaking societal norms in the spirit of finding their truth. If you're seeking permission to be brave in your relationships and want to feel less alone along the way we got you.

Andrea Enright 1:07

I interviewed Janelle in this episode. And you would think this would be something that we've continuously discussed before, and we have discussed some of it, but there is so many new things coming in so many ways that the divine can show up in your life, and so many ways that you can be open to receive it bravehearts. This is where this is where love begins. This is where life begins. This is where freedom begins, and purpose and purpose, if you can trust yourself, value what that message is, ask for what you want and then act upon what you want, a relationship with spirit can truly lift you up. This is the explanation you're gonna hear in this episode. Yes, it's edgy,

Janelle Orion 1:59

right? Like, I, like, we just finished this episode, and I'm like, All right, what are it's so personal. It's so intimate, and every single person's relationship to spirit is their own. And I did my best, and I'm proud of myself in some ways, of like, finding ways to express what feels impossible to define.

Andrea Enright 2:18

Yeah, you'll learn how to reduce your resistance to that message and learn a little bit more about letting go of form, how your spirituality can look any way you want it, to see you in

Andrea Enright 2:38

there. Hi, brave hearts. We're so glad you're here. Welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea,

Janelle Orion 2:43

and I'm Janelle, and welcome to our first episode of season five, how to build a relationship with God, with spirit, with the divine, with the universe, whatever it is that you call it, call that thing that is greater than ourselves. And, you know, we like to go deep brave hearts. And so this episode, this season, we decided, like, How deep can we go? This is it?

Andrea Enright 3:12

Yeah, remember we used to do taboo topics, and we still do, but we used to spread them out a little bit more. You know, purpose and pleasure and motherhood and menopause, and now we're talking about God. And as with all of our episodes in the past couple seasons, we will interview each other. We will interview experts. Is there really such a thing as expert on God? I'm not sure, different perspectives. And of course, we'll interview bravehearts. The first one up, of course, is Janelle. Woohoo. So here we go. And this is a big one, because, oh, man, Janelle definitely talks about spirit and the divine, probably more than anyone else I know. I have learned a lot from her about this. Yeah, it's a hot topic. It's right up her alley. So Janelle, how did you first start building a relationship with spirit? Let's call it. What you call it? What do you want to call it on

Janelle Orion 4:10

today? Today? Yeah, I see probably the Divine is what's going to end up flowing through me. But I might be. I might use it interchangeably with Spirit and God as well, and it's really, I'm sitting here kind of laughing at your reflection about that. I'm the person who talks about spirit the most, because that's just a sign that that I have changed. I have evolved. I did not consider myself spiritual until the last, I don't know, five, seven years, and it was not a topic that I ever spoke about. It was not a way of being so anyway, you're gonna get to hear a brave heart my journey today, and it all started

Janelle Orion 4:58

way back when I was born.

Janelle Orion 5:00

Yeah, you know, I'm born from my mom was a former Catholic nun. My dad's a former Catholic priest, right? So I was obviously raised Catholic, and I went to church every Sunday. But I did not go to Catholic school. I'll just name that, because I think a lot of people went to Catholic school. Have another that's a whole other layer of things. But in high school, I started to feel disconnected from the dogma there's stance on homosexuality, women, abortions. I was, like, deeply pro choice, you know, protesting. And my dad and I had disagreements in conversations about all these different topics. And they were, these were hard conversations that I had with my dad. But interestingly, somehow he felt that the dogma could be separated from the love of Jesus Christ, like he wasn't growing up telling me that homosexuals were bad and it wasn't like abortions are bad. He was just like a baby and a fetus is good.

Andrea Enright 5:58

So you're saying he separated the dogma from the love of Jesus Christ, which is, I think that's huge, like, that's awesome, because that really is, that's the problem, right? There's something, oh, like, because Jesus was a great guy, right? It's just the church that fucked everything up, in my opinion. But, and so you're saying he separated this out for you in the beginning,

Janelle Orion 6:19

yes? Like, ultimately, he was like, he's like, you can still love Jesus and believe women should have rights and be priests. Like, he didn't feel that there was a conflict there, right? But I did. I was like, I can't be part of a church that still has a stance that is against how I believe. But so obviously, my dad was very progressive, and he would have had to been as was my mother, because they chose the love between the love between them, I'm not gonna say over Jesus Christ, because my I believe that my dad's like full expression of Jesus Christ came through his love of my mom And then love of family. What my dad believed ultimately in his decision to leave the church was that his love of Jesus Christ could be more fully expressed through loving my mom and having a family, which is a very progressive stance,

Andrea Enright 7:15

absolutely okay. So then what happens?

Janelle Orion 7:20

So, you know, I went to college, I stopped going to church unless I was home visiting my parents for a long time, and I just called myself a non practicing Catholic. I wasn't spiritual at all, and there wasn't there were times actually I wasn't even sure if I believed in God. Yet, when my mom died when I was 34 after a three year fight with cancer, I totally believed that she went to heaven because she believed in it, and I was comfortable with that paradox within me. I didn't have to believe in heaven for me to know that my mom went to heaven.

Andrea Enright 7:53

Wow, that's a big paradox, but, and yet, I think this is an important paradox to point out that I think there's plenty of people that live in this paradox every day, not this particular one, but in paradox in some way, with their belief, because things just don't always match up, and it's a lot of work to be like, Ah, shit that doesn't match up. How do I resolve that? Wow, that's powerful.

Janelle Orion 8:20

And my mom's faith was so deep that I supported her in her faith like I didn't have any qualms about what she believed for herself. And then an interesting thing happened. It was, it was, you know, she passed away 17 years ago, and it took a while, like several years, but eventually I started praying to her. She became my connection to spirit and God.

Andrea Enright 8:46

Okay, so did you have a prayer practice before then? No, I guess you started praying on a regular basis.

Janelle Orion 8:54

It wasn't, it wasn't like, Oh, I'm like, kneeling at the base of my bed with my hands up, like, prayers, yeah, there is an image that I got there. Yes, no, that was not what I was doing, but it would be, you know, I'd be someplace, and I'd be like mom, and I'd have a conversation with her. There was just this dialog, sometimes external, sometimes internal, that so my mom was this gateway, essentially, and recently, a dear friend who knew my mom Well, when I shared with her how my I started praying to God after my mom passed away, because I kind of equated my mom as, I don't say equated my mom as God, but there was some relationship to that that she she said, Well, Your mom was your bridge to God. And that hit me really deeply. This was only a few months ago, because in this way, I feel like my mom sacrificed her life in order for her daughter to have a relationship with God. Boom.

Andrea Enright 9:58

Whoa. Wow. Yeah, okay, just receiving that.

Janelle Orion 10:04

And obviously this isn't like conscious, you know, she was sick for a long time, but there's like, the the fulfillment and the love and the freedom that I feel as a result of my relationship to the Divine and to God. Now I My mom helped deliver to me after she passed.

Andrea Enright 10:25

Okay, so, So Janelle, what I'm hearing is that you had some early questions about religion and God and how that fit into the world, how it fit into your belief. You had support. Your dad understood the difference, and you went away from the Church for a while, and then the death of your mother helped you, in a sense, come back into building a relationship with spirit.

Janelle Orion 10:51

Yes, I would say I've never gone back to the church. Like, so just to be clear, like, I still, yeah, got it, and it still, it took a long time. Like, so, when I was 40, so six years after my mom had passed, I met my boyfriend, who became my husband, and he was deeply spiritual, and he met me at a time that I wasn't like. My relationship with my mom had not still blossomed yet at that point, and he didn't try to convince me of anything. But I do believe that our relationship was an early catalyst to my awakening, and this awakening is what I'm calling, this relationship to a God that I also say is not outside of me, it's within me. And psychedelics and tantra were other catalysts to the this developing relationship and awakening and being connected to something larger than myself.

Andrea Enright 11:44

Okay, so you just said that the spirit is within you, but it's also you're also being connected to something larger than myself. Can we chop that up?

Janelle Orion 11:54

Yeah, maybe it's back to me living in comfortable living in paradox. But in a way, it's like, oh, I'm bigger than this human version of Janelle. Like, the divine that lives within me is bigger than the human portion of me. Yeah, that's a

Andrea Enright 12:14

really curious statement. Divine living in you is bigger than your human being. Is that what you said, Yes.

Janelle Orion 12:21

And another way to say it is like, here's my human, my body, mind, and then my soul lives outside of is inside of that, and outside of that, it's sort of like I have, like, just, like, just doing this in my mind. I've never said this out loud, but like, there's an aura around me, right? That's my soul, my body, human, is within that, and but it's also like bigger than that. And then the relationship to like spirit, to God, is also beyond the soul. That's like this one life where we're all one thing, okay? And so, you know, we're having this conversation. 10 years in to my deep spiritual journey home to myself. And so when I say I'm coming home to myself, This is my there's this human self. And inside this human self is this divine aspect I again. There's other so many words we can call these things like there's the void, the dark, the monad, the one life. These are all synonyms to this essence that is nothing and everything from which life comes from,

Andrea Enright 13:36

nothing and everything just continue with the paradox yeah

Janelle Orion 13:43

and brave hearts. I'm just gonna say feeling a little vulnerable. Because I, yeah, I don't know that there are experts on this topic. We all, we are all each talking about our own experience and yet, trying, it's like trying to put words to the ineffable is it's a vulnerable place to be like, here's my experience. How can I put words to a feeling and to a state of being that is very hard to describe? And I'm know that my experience is mine. I'm not saying to anyone listening, this should be your experience. I'm just trying to express to you mine. I think the reason why this is even worth a conversation, and why this is worth an episode, an entire season, is because, for me, this feeling of having a relationship to the Divine has led me to a much deeper sense of fulfillment and freedom, and I want that for everybody, regardless of how they get there or what it looks like that feeling.

Andrea Enright 15:00

Feeling is why I'm talking about this. I mean, I hear that you're finding it, you're owning it in your own way, and you're encouraging others and leading the way to for others to find that too, whatever it looks like. And when you say that, what does it look like? What are you talking about like? I know, I know you mentioned that it's hard to describe this feeling, but maybe it's important to say what, what does your spirituality look like on a regular basis? What are you talking about? I think I want to answer it a slightly different way, which is

Janelle Orion 15:38

so I believe so. My dad's 94 now, and I believe, to the best of my mind's understanding, that he and I believe and experience the same thing, which is this permeating sense of love his path was through the Catholic Church, which aligned for him through his love of Jesus Christ, but it got him to a place of like, oh, like, there's just this love that we are all part of. For me, my journey was through Tantra and psychedelics. And when Dad and I have conversations, he'll be like, I don't understand your vocabulary per se. Like, I don't know the word you're using, but I feel you. I feel you in this permeation of, like, love and in that way, like my dad was kind of attached to his way, right? The Catholic church, Jesus Christ. Like, that's the way to get to this feeling where I'm like, no, no, the feeling is the thing, whatever way you take is totally fine. So when I'm not leading, or like leading anyone down a very specific path, I'm just saying this is the path that worked for me. Whatever path works for you is great. But there is a feeling that comes from having a relationship to the divine within me that has me connected to all beings in the world I would not want to live if I did not have that feeling any longer.

Andrea Enright 17:15

Okay, so you said a lot there. So what's coming up for me is that is something that we talk about a lot on the podcast is letting go of form, right? Your dad had his way. You had your way. You both reached love, just like a bicycle wheel with different spokes coming to the same center, kindness, love, connection with the world. I'm gonna try again, though, to get a little more concrete and grounded, because what I asked is like, what does this look like on an everyday basis? Okay, what are a few things just like, maybe three examples of how this looks at your house, when you're flying across the country, when you're recording a podcast. You're driving to yoga,

Janelle Orion 18:04

so I'll say how it looks like. So I'm at home at the goddess temple. I'm in the morning. I wake up, I make my cacao, and I sit in front of my altar. I'll light a candle for myself. I'll light a candle for my ancestors. I'll light incense. And whether I'm meditating, whether I'm praying, whether I'm pulling a Oracle Card, I miss sitting in presence and appreciation and gratitude. So that's one way it looks, another way it looks, which is a new way. It's like a new something new has unlocked in me is feeling connected to the trees and to the plants. And so now I go around my house saying good morning to all my plants, and I'll like go outside and say hi to the trees. And there's this, I can't explain it, rave hearts, but I now can feel like I now have a green thumb, because I can feel the energy of these plants and these animals. And so there, there's something new there that has me feel connected. And so there's like a I feel like that's a sort of prayer.

Andrea Enright 19:16

Okay, so the last we heard in your story, you'd met your boyfriend, then husband, who is quite spiritual, and his influence, along with Tantra and psychedelics, had led you towards spirituality. So what happened next on that journey of when

Janelle Orion 19:37

I look at the arc of my life in terms of a timeline, I would say from zero to 40, I was very closely associated to my human personality, my individual self, and I was very happy and comfortable with that. I wasn't a seeker, I wasn't in conflict, but I wasn't seeking God. But I was also aware. Her that I hadn't had a life experience that spiritually challenged me, and I equated those to having kids or having a close experience of death myself. So there was something in me that was like, Oh, I'm not sure about God. I don't know if I believe, but I also know that I'm just like, going along and racing mountain bikes and hanging out like there was nothing that was like pulling me that was like, No, you have to make a decision, because what kind of school are you going to send your kids to, or whatever, whatever interesting.

Andrea Enright 20:33

Let's just offer that like you're kind of equating that parent role with having to make decisions about who you are, because you're about to raise this child and influence them and plan their life for them, right?

Janelle Orion 20:46

Yeah, and in that way too, does it my relationship with my husband? Right? What kind of wedding ceremony were we gonna have? Right? Like we had, we were having conversations. And so suddenly I was no longer just like a solo person moving through the world, once I became in relationship to other. In my case, I didn't have kids, but, like, had I had kids like these types of relationships would have required me to go inward to have these decisions

Andrea Enright 21:14

and but how did you decide about the ceremony for the wedding, for example? I mean, I think that's a perfect example.

Janelle Orion 21:20

We had a very non traditional ceremony outside. We didn't it wasn't religious at all, and it was hard. My dad struggled with it, and yet it was true for us, true for my husband and I. So yeah, having being willing to have hard conversations with others, got what we were doing. So around 40 I would say, then from 40 to to 4849 I was developing my relationship with my soul, right? So I was solidly in my human for the first 40 years. And then seven to eight years, I was like in this exploration, discovery with my soul. And about two years ago, I had an experience. I was on a Tantra retreat where I had where I felt my soul like click in and what that means was that I can see the souls in others and feel the purity and the love that is in everybody. And in a way, it's very transpersonal. It's like, oh, I don't have to like the human, but I can love the soul.

Andrea Enright 22:32

Hmm, can you define transpersonal? I think I can. But I think maybe what you said is a is a great demonstration of it.

Janelle Orion 22:40

Yes, it's I'm a tantric, right? I do this work. I do intimate work with people, right? And I don't have to know them as a human right, because I'm actually having a two hour session, and I'm working with their soul. And so in that way, it's trans personal, because it's not about the personal and their personality of the human, although that's obviously part of what we're navigating, but it's trying to get their soul to express more. Okay. And so in the past two years, my relationship with the divine and with spirit has continued to deepen, and I feel God within me and in all of us. And I believe that we are all like a fractal of the same universal love. Is an interesting video on YouTube called the egg. If people want to like, see a video of like, what that looks like. Okay, one of the most unexpected twists and turns of my life, and I've had many brave hearts, you know, my path has not been linear, is that I've recently founded a church, and it's called the church witness sisterhood, and the point of that is to help create a sense of belonging for people, and the church has presented itself as a way to do that. It's very new. It's still unfolding. You'll hear more about it, but there is, there's not a dogma associated to it. It's a, you know, place where everyone is welcome, but there, you know, there are some values and pillars to it, but that's where my journey has led me, which is, again, surprising and unexpected.

Andrea Enright 24:31

Yeah, pretty crazy. I have heard you say that you're following spirit. You're listening to spirit when you're making decisions, sometimes big decisions about your life, and we're talking like changing your business, changing your partner, changing your roommates. So can you tell me a little bit more about how those messages. Decisions come through.

Janelle Orion 25:01

This is where I think, like human design, which we've talked about in other episodes, is valuable. Of like, oh, how is it that, like, decisions come through me? How do I make them? And so for me, if this is not going to be true for everyone, because we're all different types, it's a sense of knowing. It's called Clear Gnosis or Claire cognizance is a term, and it's very hard to describe, but there's just like a sense in my body of like, Yes, that's correct, and that doesn't happen, like someone asked me a question. I'm like, oh, that's what I should do. It takes time, and I can be like, Oh, I'm in the fog. So if I feel confused, there's a sense of confusion and lack of clarity, then I'm like, Oh, I'm not in the place of groundedness to make a decision yet. And then at some point, and it could be that I've done a lot of research, time has passed, like more information has come in, and then suddenly, like, it's like the fog and confusion clears, and there's a moment of clarity, and I'm like, Oh, now that's the decision. And the fascinating thing is, that's not the hard part, right? That's a step, and it does take attunement and discernment to discover when that moment happens. But then, like, in the case of the church, like that moment happens and I'm like, What the fuck that's what the truth is like, that's what I'm supposed to be doing. That's what my like, divine knowing is telling me is I should start a church. I'm like, Oh my gosh. So the next step is to then have to, like, let go of the conditioning of what my inner knowing when my inner knowing is in conflict to what I have been told, or to what my judgments are, or to what I think I'm supposed to do. Yeah.

Andrea Enright 26:54

So the way that you're talking about spirit is indicating that it is a different being than your rational thought, and it's almost like it comes in and it meets your rational thought, and they're having a little tussle, right? Because you're like, what I'm supposed to do, what? So I think what I'm hearing is it sometimes surprises

Janelle Orion 27:14

you, it surprises me, and they sometimes can be resistance, but you know, so, for example, when I got the message right, to move into the goddess temple. But I was like, But wait, it's so expensive. How am I gonna afford this?

Andrea Enright 27:26

This was also what I said to you, by the way. I was like, What are you doing? Are you fucking kidding me?

Janelle Orion 27:32

And so then every month I'd be like, checking in, and I'm like, Nope, you're supposed to stay here. And then I was like, Okay, well, I'm gonna Airbnb it. And then the message was like, No, you're not. And I'm like, What do you mean? No, I'm not. How am I supposed to afford this? And so I've been on this journey. And so the the journey is actually, how quickly can I drop the resistance to what I feel is the divine message coming through.

Andrea Enright 28:03

And so what's been your journey with the resistance like, you know, are you like? Used to be two hours, used to be a month. Now, I don't want to quantify it too much, but it seems like you flow much easier into these decisions than you used to. Yeah.

Janelle Orion 28:16

I mean, I just made a really big decision yesterday, like a decision came through regarding health insurance, of like, you know, mundane things, and then I was like, oh, okay, that's the decision. Wow. Like, it's no surprise today, but like, a month ago, and certainly in every other time in my life, I would have been like, there's no way I'm making that decision. Yeah. And I would have, like, fought against it and been like, no, no, no. Like, it's I have to have health insurance, and it has to look a certain way, and it has to be like this. And I was like, oh, oh, okay, I hear you. That's what's happening. What I believe is that the resistance I have to this hit of intuition or to this divine message is where my suffering lies.

Andrea Enright 29:07

Boom, that is so true. Yeah, definitely resonates. The resistance to this divine message is where the suffering lies

Janelle Orion 29:20

and the resistance is my mind, my conditioned mind, my what I've been told, what I'm supposed to do, what everyone else does, what are people going to think judgments about society, others, all of that, right? That's where the resistance is. Like, you can't do that thing. You can't like, follow the truth of what's coming out of you because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, how long it has taken me? This is a journey, right? The journey has been, how quickly can I come back to center when that resistance comes in and follow what feels true for me,

Andrea Enright 29:57

I just can immediately relate and know that I. I have been in such resistance to so many things, and whew, it is such a hard journey and so much suffering.

Janelle Orion 30:09

And we've said on this podcast, right? Like one of the pillars of our podcast is figuring out what you want and asking for it,

Andrea Enright 30:18

which is directly related to this. Yeah, right.

Janelle Orion 30:21

And so figuring out what you want to me is understanding and listening to that your intuition and the divine that's coming through you, and then being willing to ask for it despite fears, judgments, conditioning, expectations that are different.

Andrea Enright 30:38

And maybe I would adjust that to say, be willing to ask for it and be willing to act upon it, because we don't really always need to ask. You know, this can be about, I mean, I just want to give examples. I mean, this is runs everything from like not going home for Christmas to staying home with your child instead of working, to getting Botox not getting Botox, to to leaving your partner, to quitting your job, to moving it can be very small or very big, but when we let that message come in and we stop the resistance, we definitely stop suffering. Is there any tips you can say about how you let go of the resistance?

Janelle Orion 31:19

The steps that are required are trust.

Andrea Enright 31:24

Trust steps just one word and yeah,

Janelle Orion 31:27

there's trust, trust and valuing, trusting what my intuition is saying and then valuing what it has to say. But I also want to bring up I had a conversation with a woman in my women's circle a couple months ago, and she was and she was, and she was mentioning, she's like, I feel so far for my spirituality, she's in the process of moving houses to a different country. She's like, I'm just in the like, logistics, logistics all the time. And my response was like, Oh, I feel that when you're in the logistics about something like that, like you're in your spiritual state all of the time, because every question you're going inward, like, what movers Should we hire? What date should we move? What city should we move to? What house are we buying? Right when you go into a house and you go around and you're feeling okay, can I feel myself here? Is this the right school district for the kid? Like all of these things, if like, who's answering the question, Is it someone outside of you? Is it the realtor who's telling you where to buy the house, or are you going inward to make the decision? So in this way, I feel that our spirituality does not exist when we're sitting only exists when we're sitting at an altar. Right? Our spirituality, we walk that path. It's a state of being, of like coming inward and asking ourselves, what's true for me for this, what's true for me for that? And it's these are not, quote, unquote, spiritual questions. These are the human experience. But like having our divine guide our human experience, okay, yeah, I

Andrea Enright 32:58

love that description of bringing it back to the human experience and bringing it into everyday living. It's not about the ritual. It's about presence, being present with yourself. Yes, and I do think presence is actually another. Is a spiritual state, right? When we are just with our attention, an intention to be present

Janelle Orion 33:23

is, in a way, becoming one with the Divine.

Andrea Enright 33:28

And Janelle, how do you feel that having a relationship with Spirit helps you find peace amidst the suffering in this world?

Janelle Orion 33:38

It's deeply comforting. I believe that when people feel connected to their soul, it's so tender and exquisitely beautiful, and there's this just sick, yeah, this like permeating feeling of love, that my innate response is that I want others to feel that too, so I know I cannot stop the suffering that's going on in the world, but I am drawn to help people feel connected to their own soul, which in turn leads to less suffering. But I'm doing it one person at a time,

Andrea Enright 34:16

one person at a time, and I would say you're also doing it now, perhaps with the church witness sisterhood

Janelle Orion 34:27

and the goddess temple, and feel wildly alive my company and permission to be human like I actually really feel that my entire life is integrated and weaved together, like my stance on this. I walk through the world and I don't withhold my I don't withhold reflecting someone's soul to them at any point, right? If they're a client and they're paying me money for that, then I do that. If there's a strange. Are on the street, and we our paths cross, and there's an opportunity that opportunity presents itself. I'm not like forcing myself on anyone, but if it's in a conversation, it comes up, then I do that with my friends who need support. I do that like it's it's just that some people only are going to be in my presence if they become clients, and some people, it's like a five minute random passing in the street, but it's part of it. Just is who I am, and it is what I do, no matter what and no matter where I am.

Andrea Enright 35:30

Does that mean your relationship with Spirit gives you the capacity to directly support

Janelle Orion 35:37

the less fortunate? Yes, but I think what's unique, perhaps, is that I would define the less fortunate as anyone who doesn't have a relationship with spirit or their own heart and their own truth, because back to suffering, right? Like I could give someone $5 who's on the street that's not going to alleviate their suffering, but if I can reflect their soul back to them in such a way that there's a chance that a little bit of their suffering can be, really can be alleviated. And so, like, there's this, like, tangible quality, if I try to alleviate the suffering as the suffering, there's always more suffering. I can't I can't do anything about that. All I can do is, like, shine a light on Hey, your soul is pointing you in this direction. It's up to you, and it's up to them if they want to follow it or not not. It's not about me at all. I just have this capacity and ability to say, Oh, I see, I see this next step that might be useful for you, if you want to take it.

Andrea Enright 36:50

How does your relationship with Spirit then impact your other relationships in your life? Well, as I said, right?

Janelle Orion 36:56

I did not have relationship with spirit, you know, 10 years ago, and so that my friends that I have now all have a relationship with spirit, and we thought when I didn't have one, when I didn't have relationship myself, like that wasn't true. My friends didn't have relationships like I had different friends. And so now I have a deep trust of myself in my relationship with spirit within me, and that extends, then to others, to friends, who they trust their relationship with spirit. And so if they trust their relationship with spirit, then I trust their relationship to spirit, which means it doesn't have to look exactly like mine. Does they don't actually have to have like their intuition can be totally different than mine. I have zero attachment to what their relationship looks like. I just trust their own knowing.

Andrea Enright 38:01

I think this has come up for me as my life has shifted. And so what I'm curious about is, how do you release parts of your life where things don't align anymore? So that's part of it. And then the other part of it is, can you tell me about a time when there was a conflict because you were interacting with someone who didn't know themselves, who didn't believe in spirit? What happens when two people are interacting that operate from such in such different paradigms,

Janelle Orion 38:39

people that I'm in conflict with, essentially just a kind of fall away. You know, I I work for myself. I don't have children. There's no PTA, there's no neighbors, like, there's, I'm not in relationship, in all honesty, with people who I don't have to be in relationship with.

Andrea Enright 39:00

Yeah, yeah. So I want to rephrase, because that's, I get that, but what if someone you have been in relationship with cannot listen to spirit? Yeah, so that's asking for a friend.

Janelle Orion 39:16

So I just offer compassion, and there's no judgment. There's I cannot force anyone to listen to spirit, no matter. And this is maybe a lesson from my dad and anyone who's event Evangelical, right? I can feel, Oh, I have such an open heart and desire for someone to have a relationship to spirit, because it's been so nourishing for me. But that is not my path, like that's their path. No one can judge the timing for somebody else. It's just the acceptance. And I actually think one of the biggest challenges that I have to face and hold is the capacity to hold the pain in my heart of watching someone else. Adults struggle and suffer, and there's nothing I can do about it, but I can love them with compassion for where they're at in the moment, and I might change my behavior, not towards them, but like you know, in friendships, right? There's a reciprocity that makes a friendship feel nourishing and fulfilling, right? And these days, like my wisdom does come through this like spiritual soul reflecting lens. So if someone doesn't receive that from me, then it's not actually very fulfilling to hang out, not because I'm forcing myself on them, but because they don't feel seen by me and they don't see me. So in that way, the relationship does change. It does fall away. It doesn't mean I don't like them, but it does mean I probably won't see them and hang out with them as often.

Andrea Enright 40:51

How would you suggest someone find their deepest belief or spiritual path if they're seeking like what's a great first step

Janelle Orion 41:00

to spend time alone and listen to your body. Some people say, quiet your mind and but I think that that's impossible. Instead, like, imagine you are at a concert and the music is playing really loud, and someone you love is talking to you, but you have to get really quiet, stop dancing like lean in and listen really hard in order to hear them. That's your body talking and the music, that loud music is your mind.

Andrea Enright 41:34

It's a great analogy. I never, never heard you say

Janelle Orion 41:37

that. I know you came up with it just for this podcast. Really, I love it.

Andrea Enright 41:41

It's so good. I'm just gonna like, I like they need to carry that away. That's like a post. What are the rituals and practices in your life around this relationship with spirit?

Janelle Orion 41:51

I honor my body, my human body. I treat it as my temple. I get enough sleep. I eat when I'm hungry. I drink a lot of water. I nourish myself with massage and and touch. And it sounds it's so simple, on the one hand, but I recognize when I was in my stage of only to like, three years ago, right? I would deny myself food for a variety of different reasons, and I wouldn't. I just wouldn't be listening and paying attention to my body. And a lot of people don't get enough sleep. Our culture is like, go, go, go, go up late, get up for work early, do all these things. And I think sleep is sacrosanct. And so the more I'm just like, oh, is if my body is nourished. There's less noise in the body. Another way I could describe my spiritual path, right, is that I follow my pleasure. I believe our pleasure is sacred, and our birthright and pleasure can be expressed in so many different ways. Yes, there's sexual pressure, there's also erotic pleasure. But ultimately, if I want to do something because it makes me feel good, that is Spirit moving through me. So I've had to develop this skill of being able to discern when desire is coming from my mind versus coming from my heart, and when I feel it in my heart, my practice is to listen and follow it as quickly as possible with as little resistance as possible.

Andrea Enright 43:24

Oh, such a great conversation with you. Um, you would think I knew all this already, but I'm still learning, still learning from you.

Janelle Orion 43:35

Um, but I'm still learning right? Like, so, like, that's this, is this? There's no destination. There's no like, oh, I can check the spiritual box. I mean, I expect myself to continue to expand and learn about my own relationship with spirit for the rest of my life.

Andrea Enright 43:55

Yeah, thank you for being so vulnerable and so open about this path I really can't think of anything else that's closer to the meaning of life. This is how profound this feels to me, like it's just oh, it's all comes back to this.

Janelle Orion 44:12

Yeah, yeah, thank you. That feels true. And I think in this way, it's how it now feels aligned with my it's not my purpose. It just is the purpose of life, like the meaning of life is this freedom, this liberation from what's outside, right to what's because when we listen to what's inside, it feels free. A teacher said recently, it's not about the freedom from self, from our ego. It's the freedom of self right that we just allow what this intuition, our heart, this divine message, to when we just allow it to express like. That's what freedom

Andrea Enright 45:00

is, okay, that's a perfect place to stop.

Andrea Enright 45:07

Thank you friend. Thank you bravehearts for listening. Thanks, Bravehearts, thanks, Andrea. I feel

Andrea Enright 45:16

Yeah, feel like now we'll see you in the next episode of building relationship with spirit. Bye, bye.

Janelle Orion 45:30

Hey, Bravehearts, looking for permission. Work with us. Andrea offers permission coaching, and Janelle offers erotic wellness sessions. Follow us on Instagram, meet us in real life at permission to be human workshops in Denver. Subscribe to our newsletter. Do all this and more at our website, permission to be human. Dot live you.