Ep 106: Part 6/12, Losing Yourself, Finding Spirit & Devotion over Discipline with Breathworker Claudia Nanino: How to Build a Relationship with God Series

In this episode of Permission to Be Human, hosts Andrea Enright and Janelle Orion sit down with Claudia Nanino, a master breathwork facilitator who’s learned to make peace with change by breathing straight through it. Claudia opens up about a childhood of Roman Catholicism, leaving behind polished identities, mothering while awakening, and realizing a relationship with God is a “reconnection” and that it can look however works best for you. They talk about how to nurture a beautiful connection to spirit, why self-forgiveness is essential, her intentionality in giving back and how verything she thought she was supposed to be had to die before she could breathe. There’s a nod to ‘The Four Agreements” by Miguel Ruiz, “Many Lives, Many Masters” by Dr. Brian Weiss and the Ho'oponopono Prayer. You’ll hear:

-Claudia’s journey of choosing devotion over discipline

-Why she eventually traded control for communion

-How rituals can keep us anchored to spirit

-Why Claudia believes everything is God, even you

-Her story of how releasing old identities set her free

-Claudia’s go-to phrase when she’s in conflict

-Why vulnerability builds muscle where armor used to be

-Some insight on raising teenagers in a spiritual setting (hint: just model it)

Reach Claudia at Breathwork | Colorado | Amarsi and follow her on Instagram at amarsi.claudia

TRANSCRIPT:

Janelle Orion 0:00

Janelle, struggling to discuss sex and intimacy with your partner, not feeling met, seen or heard in your relationships. I'm Janelle And I'm Andrea. We're two midlife Mavericks sharing our own experiences, messy, AF and no regrets with marriage, divorce, polyamory and pleasure. We've learned that when you're brave enough to figure out what you want and ask for it, with partners, friends, family and most importantly, yourself, you'll feel more alive and free question everything, especially your mother's advice. There's no rom com formula for this. But don't panic. Being alone matters, honey, I can't miss you if you don't leave, what if your breakup could be your breakthrough? Our podcast is for brave hearts. Anyone who seeks or has found the courage to confront their fears and limiting beliefs about breaking societal norms in the spirit of finding their truth.

Janelle Orion 0:54

If you're seeking permission to be brave in your relationships and want to feel less alone along the way, we got you

Janelle Orion 1:07

wave hearts. We just

Andrea Enright 1:08

spoke with Claudia nanino, a master breath work facilitator, and someone who has really done the work to build a relationship with spirit, and what touched me so much about speaking with her was that she has had so much compassion for herself and so much compassion for the world as she was on this journey and continues to work on that relationship as she interacts with her children and her friends and her clients. This, this was a very touching and open hearted episode.

Janelle Orion 1:52

Yes, I really felt her open heartedness, her acceptance of the previous versions of herself and the mistakes or the regrets that that those versions made that allowed her to get to the version of who she is now, and she's very articulate, very clear and very approachable. So for those of you, maybe who've never even heard of breath work, don't know what it is, and you just Yeah, who want to get permission to think about God or spirit or the universe in a different way? This episode is really enlightening.

Andrea Enright 2:31

Absolutely love it. See you in there.

Andrea Enright 2:42

Hi, brave hearts. Welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea and I'm Janelle. And this is the third episode of season five where we are delving into how to build a relationship with God, Spirit, the universe, the divine, whatever you call it. In the last couple of weeks, Janelle And I interviewed each other and told our stories about our journeys building a relationship with spirit. And today we'll kick off our first guest interview,

Janelle Orion 3:13

and we are so excited to introduce master breath work facilitator Claudia nannino, Claudia is a Psychonaut, which she defines as someone who explores altered states of consciousness. She's passionate about all types of healing modalities, and says breath work is her favorite way to fly. I love how you phrase that. She's a mom of two teens and three cats, and has a long distance partner that she sees 50% of the time. Claudia, welcome to permission to be human. Thank

Claudia Nanino 3:47

you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited for this conversation, yay.

Andrea Enright 3:51

And I know Claudia because I took her breath work class, and it was, it was big. It was a really big experience for me, and continued to take that and I really saw the way that you had built a relationship with spirit through these altered states just in a few breath work classes. And so I felt called to bring her on the show.

Janelle Orion 4:16

So before we actually go into the questions, I realize some of our listeners, some of our brave hearts, may not know what breath work is. Yeah, great point. And so, yeah, would you mind Claudia just defining that and explaining the experience?

Claudia Nanino 4:30

Yeah, so breath work itself is a general term that applies to any time you're being intentional with your breath. You're choosing to breathe through your nose, through your mouth. There are many, many different techniques, more modern ones, more ancient ones. Sometimes they involve counts, sometimes they involve hold. Sometimes they involve thinking about consciously sending the breath to certain parts of the body. If anyone is familiar with yoga or tai chi or Qigong, they have different breath techniques, different breath work practices as part of those lineages. Is and then people might be familiar with Wim Hof. He's a current advocate of breath work, and has gained a lot of popularity. And so there are many benefits to breath work, these different techniques, perhaps might be focused in one area or another. Maybe there's a physical benefit. Perhaps there is something mentally that might happen. You know, there are certain yogic techniques, certain pranayama techniques that are known to help provide focus or clarity or relaxation or balancing the right and left hemispheres of the brain and on and on. So breath work again anytime you're being intentional with your breath. What Andrea mentioned is that is a technique that I have mostly known for facilitating, which is a deeper practice where we would sit down, I provide a thorough introduction on what this practice is, how you do it, what may or may not occur, and then I guide you through about a 45 minute, sometimes 60 minute experience with your breath that has kind of two key components. One is, we're using the breath to move energy. That energy can be stress, emotions, limiting beliefs, old patterns, old stories. And then the other kind of key pillar is that we're using the breath to safely and naturally access an altered state of consciousness. And that can mean a lot of things, but I think in its simplest form, it means like we're just getting out of our everyday way of thinking. We're just able to have a different perspective on our thoughts, on our past, on our experiences, sometimes perhaps on traumatic experiences, on any past pain. And that slight or perhaps big shift in perspective can be really valuable and can really help us have a different relationship with our past and process a lot of those emotions that we aren't even aware of, that we're carrying in our body. So that is my favorite way to fly, as you mentioned, and I love all breath work techniques. They all have their purposes and their benefits, but that one again, is a deeper practice, and can be quite profound for people, can be quite healing, beautiful.

Andrea Enright 7:07

Thank you. And I'll just for brave hearts, just to, like, give you a visual, bring it down to concrete. So this is for me, my experience was that I'm in a big room. There's what, 3040, people in the room, all laying down on yoga mats. Most people on their back covered up, comfortable with pillows, and I'm breathing in and out with my mouth and then listening to pretty loud music. That is definitely part of the journey. And that's happening for Yeah, 45 around 45 minutes, and there's Claudia and an assistant is are walking around, checking in on people. Do you need water? Do you need help? How are you doing? And for me, there was definitely a release around that. And I do think there is, there is some collision or crossover of spirit there for me, which is part of why, yeah, part of why I brought Claudia in for the podcast. So, yeah, all right, so now you have a picture of what's going on when she's doing this. Yeah. So how did you first start building a relationship with God or spirit? And feel free to name, name your name for this?

Claudia Nanino 8:21

Yeah, I often, most often, use the terms God or universe. Those I feel like are the ones that resonate with me most, and I use them interchangeably. God is just the word I knew first. I was raised Roman Catholic, and so that's what first introduced me to the idea of God and something outside of myself in a greater power and there, from a young age, I pick and chose which parts I resonated with, because there was a lot of things that I didn't resonate with, but then there was a lot of things that I saw was really important to my family. And so it was interesting how I kind of navigated religion from an early age. And then I would say, though, that my true connection to spirit really didn't start to develop until much later in life. I used to say, or I always said, I'm a spiritual person, and I felt like I believed it, but I didn't really know what that meant. It was more just this idea that I am spiritual based on how I was raised, based on I felt pretty confident there was something beyond this life, beyond us, that there was something that connected us all. But I just didn't really spend a lot of time getting specific about that until I had to, until life crumbled, until I had my darkest night of the soul, and all of a sudden, was desperate, desperate for change, desperate for healing, desperate for learning about myself, making different choices. At that point in my life, I was really working on forgiveness of self, and I found that it was a pretty important part of the healing work is like starting to really think about spirit, starting to really think about the. Universe, starting to really think about, like, what does this mean for me? Like, what does it What am I even considering to be God, to be the universe? And and starting to explore that. And part of that was through more traditional modalities. You know, I was in therapy at the time. I was doing some, some 12 step work there. There's a heavy emphasis there on a higher power. And I was in the Bay Area, you know, a lot of people were very uncomfortable with the word God in those rooms. And so that also was helping me have, like, a broader definition, too. I was like, okay, like, I can think of this in a different way than how I was raised, and that feels really aligned, like, that feels like something I really am comfortable with, and I want to dive deeper into and then I started to dive into less traditional modalities, and started to work with different healers, and started to read all different kinds of books and consume podcasts and just hear about all these alternative modalities and these other ways of connecting with the universe and connecting with spirit. And then started to work with plant medicines. I would say that that was my first kind of tangible connection with with God. And then very quickly after that, within months after that, found breath work, and that really, like solidified it for me, because as much as I personally was a fan of working with plant medicines and those and those types of altered state of consciousness, what I love about breath is that it's me and my breath. You know, I'm not using an external source to connect with God. I can use what's available to me, my breath in order to have those similar type experiences, those similar points of connection. And so that, I would say it was really kind of 2016 2017 where things shifted dramatically for me. And I really finally started to understand, like, what this meant. What Does god mean to me? What does this connection to the universe mean to me? And and once I started to pay attention, then, yeah, all the signs were there, all of the synchronicities, all the confirmations, all how things would start to beautifully align. You know, I was like, Okay, this is I'm so glad I'm now paying attention. My eyes are open, and I'm getting all the confirmation that I need.

Andrea Enright 12:06

Wow, beautiful. And so I think I heard that you, like you broadened your definition of God, and then plant medicine became one of your tools, and then breath work became was, was the next stage. So did you have any resistance to that in the beginning or throughout that path? What did that look like?

Claudia Nanino 12:26

I think initially, when I was attending some of the 12 step meetings like there, I felt some resistance. I was like I had associated the word God with organized religion, and I knew that there was a conflict there for me and but very quickly, I started to see how other people were defining God, and I was like, and it made so much more sense. And I was like, okay, I can still, you know, it's not that I've completely, I mean, I'm not a practicing Catholic my family, a lot of my family members, still are, and I have a lot of reverence and respect for those traditions and and the way that it brings the family together. And I'm very grateful that I just have my own path and my own way of connecting to spirit, and it feels much more inclusive. It feels much less rigid, and therefore much more accessible to me.

Janelle Orion 13:15

Something Claudia that you're naming, which is actually the reason why Andrew and I decided to do this season five of building a relationship with God is to give brave hearts permission to hear how other people have this relationship exactly to what you're saying that you know, if you're all or you just when we're taught one way, sometimes it's not that someone else's way is better, it's just knowing that there gets To be another way exactly is like, opens the mind to ideas that maybe to discover what does feel more resonant. I'm curious, in case anyone is going through a moment of a dark night of the soul, how long would you did it take you to go from that moment of dark night to like, when you're like, Oh, I've kind of landed, and I find myself

Claudia Nanino 14:03

here, let's see, I actually can think of, like, the specific dates on the calendar when things like imploded, which was around February 2016 and then I think even by that fall, I was starting to get a little bit of footing, you Know, and starting to, like, I went on my first plant medicine retreat, and felt like I was kind of taken apart and put back together. But for the first time, felt like, Okay, I kind of see a path here. Like the chaos seems to be settling a little bit, and there's so much destruction I still need to clean up, but I see a way through this. And so that's relatively short, you know, I know I'm very grateful for that. I know a lot of people, their dark nights of the soul can last much longer than that. But I also will say I was incredibly dedicated, like I was every free moment. I was doing something or talking to something or someone. I was in going to therapy. So. Sometimes two or three times a week during some of the more troublesome weeks, I was going to meetings two or three times a week like I was. I was taking every free minute to try to empower myself or educate myself, to to get out of that, that mess, because it was a big mess. So I feel grateful that it was relatively and not to say that the journey ended there. No, I feel like the journey just finally I got to the next step in the journey that felt a little bit more grounded, a little bit more like I had a little bit more clarity in that moment of like, okay, this feels like the direction I need to take and where I need to continue to focus my energy.

Andrea Enright 15:39

Yes, I hear two things are coming up for me, you talked about that. And, like, the first one is, like, devotion. It's really on my mind lately. It's like, Oh, what am I devoted to? Like, Janelle, I'm using that. I think Damas that told me about that. So, like, in the morning, like, what's what am I devoted to today? Like, and also, then I had a friend who, remember, had a, you know, a guru. This was like, 20 years ago, and I remember the picture of her guru, like, sitting on her desk, and me being, like, very fascinated and confused by this. I'm just like, Who is this guy? Like, he's in Illinois. Like, what are you doing and learning later? Like that that that practice can be one of the things that helps you practice devotion, and kind of flexes that muscle. And so I really admire how you were just like, Okay, this is what I'm doing now. I'm completely devoted to figuring this out. And I think it's taken me longer because I resisted that devotion a little

Claudia Nanino 16:32

bit, yeah, and I love that word devotion. Like, first I used to use the word discipline, and then somebody was like, I think devotion is more of the word that you're looking for, because it's it just has a much different connotation than discipline does, and yet has the same intention, right? It's like you're just dedicating yourself to this work. But devotion is like with with love, with care, with your whole heart, with your whole being beautiful.

Andrea Enright 16:56

Yeah, it feels like almost devotion can be a little bit more part of the body, too, and where discipline, I think, is, makes me think of my mind Exactly, yeah, and that

Claudia Nanino 17:05

was a big part of the problem. Is like I was so much in my head, and I was learning to get into my heart like this, this path and this connection to spirit was teaching me to be more in my heart and more in my intuition, rather than just like always in my head and in my ego. I

Andrea Enright 17:18

love it. I also noticed that we have this theme. I feel like, Janelle, like, letting go a form is just like, it's fucking everywhere now. Like, I'm just like, everywhere I look. I'm just like, oh, there it is again. Like, I can't even keep track of the metaphors just running into them all the time. And Claudia, you really just described it in letting go of form, you're like, Oh, I see God. Can be all these different things, right? And that's just really another word for another phrase for expanding your view. So thank you. Okay, so in this journey that I heard was began as healing, began as a cracking open. Did you discern your relationship with God as being different than your relationship with yourself? Or how would you talk

Claudia Nanino 18:07

about that? Definitely, in the beginning, God was an external thing. It was like, not necessarily like. I knew from a young age. It wasn't this old man in the sky with the beard, but I also always figured I was, like, separate from it somehow, you know, maybe I hadn't really clearly defined that, but it felt separate. And then as the journey began, it's, it's, I started to see that it was, or at least in my perspective, that like, Oh no, like I am God. Like we are all God. I'm a part of God. I'm an element of God. I'm God, living in this human life. But that it took a while, you know, and it took some teachings, and it took some experiences to kind of wrap my head around that. But then it started to be very clear that it's like, oh, it's not a separate thing. It's it's a remembering, it's a it's a reconnection, but that everything is God. And so that, I think also that broadening of the definition, like includes that as well. Like, everything us, you, nature, everything is God, and when we can see it that way, things just for me, just felt much more aligned and made a lot more sense, including like that healing that I was searching for, like the forgiveness was easier to access with that understanding. Yeah, it's not, of course, I'm accountable for my actions. Of course I try not to spend too much time in regret. But yes, of course there are things I wish I did differently, but being able to understand that, like I just had such a limited amount of consciousness at that point in my life, and just had very poor poke, poor coping mechanisms, and being able to look back, accept those previous versions of myself, understand that's where what got me to where I am today. You know, I would not have this relationship with God. I would not be in this place where I consider myself to truly be a spiritual person. Now, instead of prior, just. It like, I do feel like I'm now living it and working on it and continuing to vote to devote my time to it. But yeah, that's all it was all like, part of the process and part of the learning and the discovering,

Andrea Enright 20:12

I love that you said accepting previous versions of yourself, right? I've just like, that's just become such a common theme for me. It's like, Oh, it's okay. Like, all those, all those Claudia's, all those Janelle, all those Andreas had to come before the current one came. Right? Yeah, I can definitely first fall into that and think, oh, but oh, if I just had done this.

Claudia Nanino 20:35

How was I Yeah, how did I make that choice? Like, what was going on in my head? How was I not thinking?

Janelle Orion 20:40

And yeah, that came up for me just yesterday. And something that I was doing Where is I'm still letting go. Someone described it as the people I'm letting go of, the people, places and things that were part of the past, versions of me with gratitude and acceptance, but like knowing that that contract, that time has ended, and I'm by letting them putting them down, then I'm bringing in more space for what's true for the version of me right now, the more expansiveness that's true For me right now. And what that required was also putting down the I'm still hoping for a future with this person, place or thing that is different than what was there, but in the future it could be different. And I was like, Oh no, I have to cut I have to, like, set it all down. Set the future down to be in the present and in this present moment, those things are not in my life.

Claudia Nanino 21:45

Yeah, that's like the attachment, right? The attachment to future outcomes. Yeah.

Andrea Enright 21:51

So I mean, on that, that topic of letting go, were there some things Claudia you had to let go, that that were a challenge, or that that you held on to too long. Do you have any advice for brave hearts on how to overcome

Claudia Nanino 22:05

that? I think there were elements of my identity that I was holding on to. The example that's coming to mind right now is and I know this is not everybody's path, but part of my journey has been leaving behind my corporate career and stepping into this work full time, and that was very hard to do, because I was very proud of the career I had built and the job title that I held and the paycheck that came in. And it was even though I knew it was like it felt very aligned to move away from it, it still felt hard to let go of that identity that I had worked so hard to create. But also, there was parts of that identity that I didn't resonate with anymore, you know, and that I wasn't proud of. There were certain certainly elements of it that I was that I was excited to let go of, but the ego definitely still wanted that prestige, that security that I had established and, yeah, so I can, that's one example that I'm that's coming to mind right

Andrea Enright 23:05

now. So Janelle, to your point about like, having to, you have to move those things out so that other things can come through. And it sounds like Claudia, if you, you know you, I think you're implying that if you hadn't let that go, right, then you wouldn't be a master breath work facilitator today, right? Exactly those, yeah, those things had to move so that you could create space and then seek. And I think you've said that the relationship you have with God and the relationship with you have your with yourself are in one in the same, and they're woven together. Is that, right?

Claudia Nanino 23:35

Yes, there's a lot of overlap. Of course, I still sometimes see it as like something outside of me, something that I have a conversation with. But when I really think about it, I'm like, Oh, I'm just, I think, talking to other aspects of myself, like my higher self, or, you know, I don't know, it can be a lot of different things, but it goes back and forth between this, like, external thing and internal thing, for sure. Like I'm constantly before breath work, like checking in with spirit, asking for the best for everybody in the class. And so I guess I could really ask myself those things, but it just feels good and respectful of the practice to call in spirit before every session, and just allowing everybody to receive whatever's in their highest

Andrea Enright 24:19

good. I love that. Yeah. That's a great, a great tradition. Janelle, do you have something? Yeah, I think

Janelle Orion 24:25

you beautifully named. What resonates with me is that everything is God. And we were talking about nature and the things that we see, and, you know, every every other person and these beings, but then what I heard in that was like, oh, but there's also the unseen, right? The ancestors, the spirit realms, the beings that we may not see but are also supporting our higher self, that are also part of a reflection of God. And so in that way, I see it as you know. We are one with what you said. Like, I agree with that. Like, we are one expression, one fractal of this bigger thing. But by calling in spirit, you're calling in almost like other fractals being like, hey, everyone who wants to be part of this rhetoric class today will amplify the blessings love it by inviting more

Janelle Orion 25:19

in. Yeah, I love that. That's a beautiful way of putting it, yeah, in any form.

Andrea Enright 25:25

How did you think having a relationship with Spirit helps you find peace on any given day amidst the suffering in the world, and especially in the current state of our world?

Claudia Nanino 25:37

Yeah, I think it helps a lot, especially because in a lot of the things that are happening in the world, it's easy to feel helpless. It's easy to feel despair and maybe even a little hopeless sometimes that, like, even if I do do all this action, like, how much change is that really going to create? And you know, I always am trying to be careful to not to not bypass and to not ignore what's happening in the world. But also, my relationship with spirit really helps me lean into trust, into trusting like I'm doing the best I can. I'm trusting things are going to work out, hopefully for people in the best way possible. I you know, I do have this thought that, and it's hard when you were thinking about some of the more terrible things that are happening in the world. But I do feel like we come into life with specific lessons to be learned, and I don't understand why that means some people's lessons have to be so much harder, but I do think there is something about that, about this kind of pre determined path and experiences that people will go through based on, you know, perhaps our previous lives or or just whatever energy they brought into this lifetime. And so I think for me in particular, like just and even just reflecting on my own story, which is not a catastrophe whatsoever, but there was a lot of destruction that was caused based on some of my actions and choices. And I have a lot of regret around that, and I have a lot of sadness around the hurt that it caused other people, not just myself, but my family and my loved ones. And like you said, though before, like I wouldn't be on this path had those things not occurred. Like Unfortunately, nothing else was motivating me to look inward in this way. Nothing else was motivating me to find my spirituality and to find my path for healing and my growth. So as much as I wish I could have come to this life in a different way, it was those specific challenges. It was me, like, exactly like hitting rock bottom in order to finally make the choice of like I cannot ever be in this place in my life again, like what I will do anything. It created that desperation necessary for me to really commit to a totally different life.

Janelle Orion 28:03

Do you believe in, like, reincarnation or multiple lives? I

Claudia Nanino 28:09

do. I definitely do. I think it makes a lot of sense for me. I've also heard Is it, is it like a University in Minnesota or Michigan that's now like proven past lives. Like, there's, they've done some studies where they've interviewed children and they have memories that they are able to go back and, like, prove that, like, oh yeah, this is a historically accurate thing that this child could not have learned any other way, you know. And so I have to, I have to look up exactly what that study was. But there's actually now, like, professionally done research studies proving past lives, that people are coming into this life with memories from previous lives. And so, yeah, yes, I do believe in it.

Janelle Orion 28:49

So thank you for sharing, as do I, and I can just brave hearts. I actually have a book that I can just refer so Claudia, you don't have to have any homework from this podcast is I just read a book called many lives, many masters, by Barry Weiss, and it was actually first written in 2000 you know, in 1988 it's been around for a long time. And this psychotherapist, anyway, you can read about it. He is psychotherapist who is very of the scientific method, was able to prove through a patient, through hypnotherapy and past life regression, the experiences that she had. So I just, I've just completed it. I'd already believed in the in the past lives, but in reincarnation. But the book was helpful for those who need something that's more the proof comes through the mind, where my proof comes through the heart. Some way, what it did help I could kind of expand upon in a way that I hadn't really understood. And another teacher has helped me with this too. Is that part of the whole point of being human, in my view, is that for us to have all these different experiences. Experiences. And if we have multiple lives, then in each life, we're having different experiences. And part of being human is the suffering and the and it's also the joy, but it's a whole infinite spectrum of things, and that, as you know, humans, I believe, are all equal in terms of that we're all worthy of love and existence, but that as us at the soul level, we're actually very different in terms of the age and the wisdom and the experiences that we are bringing in to each life. So while the human level might be equal the soul level there. I don't want to say it's like in equal but there's just maybe differences there. And so older souls, younger souls, have to go through different things anyway. That's a new little reflection that I have.

Claudia Nanino 30:56

Yeah, I agree with you.

Andrea Enright 30:57

So I'm curious. As a mom, I'm just thinking about this, and I know you're also a mom of teens, like, how has your relationship with Spirit and God impacted your motherhood, or how you parent or shifted the journey of your kids? You know, as you've gone through such a metamorphosis,

Claudia Nanino 31:18

yeah, I think it has definitely made me more aware. Mother, a more present. Mother, I've specifically implemented, I've been trying to implement change, you know, I've been trying to break some patterns that I had seen myself bringing forward from my parents. It's interesting, you know, as teenagers, they resist this kind of idea and this conversation, but I just know I'm like, I'm living by example. You know, they see how I have things all around my house that are reminding me of spirit and connecting me to spirit. They hear me talk about different practices. They hear they sometimes witness me doing different rituals. And so even if it doesn't quite resonate with them yet, at least they're being exposed to it. At least, I think it's planting seeds, and they can, when they're ready, you know, define their own path and choose their own relationship with spirit. But I think they don't doubt in this idea of the universe or God, but I certainly don't think they're quite ready to define what that means for them. Yet my daughter has done breath work and had a very profound experience. And so I know she knows, you know, I know she's she's had some first hand experience with spirit, and also it was so big for her that she's not come back to it quite yet. And that's fine, you know, I'm not pressuring her to do this work. And then my son is not ready yet, and he keeps saying that, no, not yet, no, no. But they've come with me on retreats. They've done some other they've done things like Temescal, they've done some other experiences and worked with some other modalities. They've drank a cow. And so they're being exposed slowly and surely and and I like that. I like that. You know, we can at least reference these things, even if they're not quite ready for super direct dialog about it. They can hear me talk about it. They definitely know that I'm different from most of the other mothers, but they're okay with that, and we'll see how their relationship with the universe ends up unfolding as they get older and it becomes more important, you know, more more of a consideration for them. Wow.

Janelle Orion 33:29

Thank you so much. You mentioned to Tim Escal, I don't know what that is.

Claudia Nanino 33:33

It's like a sweat lodge. It's the Central and South American version of a sweat lodge. Got it, and so, yeah, they came on a retreat with me over the New Years, and that was one of the activities that we did, and I had to bribe them to do it, but they did it, and I was so proud of them for enduring because it's very challenging.

Andrea Enright 33:51

Wow, this is so inspiring to me. And it just, I'm just, it's just lovely to hear from another mom how you're doing this, because I actually just don't often cross paths with people, with kids who are on some of these. This the spiritual paths. And, yeah, I think what you're doing is beautiful. Just is modeling for them and saying, okay, like, you don't get it yet, and that's okay, you're watching, and maybe you're going to get it later, in five years, in 10 years, in 25 years, like, you know, something will come in, because I think about myself and how, and how the lessons from my parents, I loved, then I rejected, then I loved and I rejected. And what you're saying gives me hope, as having a 16 year old, you know, his really in it, and is definitely less, less interested and less, almost like railing against right? But as you said, too, like the things around the house are all connecting to spirit, right? And ultimately, your kids are watching you and your presence. Yeah, your awareness, your transformation, and how you're meeting life. And so, yeah, that's that's exciting. Thank you.

Claudia Nanino 35:11

Yeah, at least I'm trying my best, right, and and I make mistakes, and at least now I can admit when I make a mistake and acknowledge it and try to clean up whatever mess, whatever hurt I might have caused from that mistake. And that's a big part of this journey, and a big part of being more connected to God and to the universe is is that accountability and that awareness and that desire to repair,

Andrea Enright 35:36

absolutely desire to repair. That was another Andrea Gibson quote we've been quoting her lately, and something she said, she's a poet and activist. I know if you're familiar with her. She passed away. She lives in Boulder, oh yes, yes. Passed away earlier this summer, earlier this year. And she said, I used to think there were good and bad people, and now I just feel like there are people who the good people are the people who are working on their wounds, and you know that that's the only way she could really define it as like, that's who, that's who she wants to be around, and that's who she's attracted to, right? And and that accountability, and that saying sorry, and saying, Oh, I messed up. I'm just amazed at how that's a hard thing to do, right? It's, in fact, one of the hardest things for humans to do. And so, yeah, practicing that is just such a big thing in itself. So does a relationship with Spirit give you the capacity to directly support the less fortunate, and if so, how?

Claudia Nanino 36:44

Yes, I would say so. And that is actually something that I'm putting more energy into right now and exploring further, because I want to even do it more intentionally. But I do this work, being able to do this work, being able to do breath work full time. I'm also working with crystals. I'm also organizing retreats. It's a big emphasis of mine to want people who perhaps might not have the financial means to access this type of work, to be able to do so. And so I'm trying to get the message out there about sliding scale. I have some I've had people come to breath work who can only afford to pay me $1 and I say, thank you. Thank you for getting that dollar together. I think, I do think some type of energetic exchange is really important, but I'm always willing to be as flexible as possible. With our last two retreats, we were able to raise money to completely scholarship to different people to attend those retreats. And so that felt really good. And so I'm trying to find different ways to pay it forward. I'm always, each year, investing in at least one or two programs for my continued development. And I'm trying to be very conscious with where, who I'm investing with, and like, where that money is going and and can I support people of color? Can I support indigenous leaders? Can I support, you know, the original kind of wisdom keepers? And so I feel like I'm very grateful for the life that I have, and I'm very grateful for this, the fact that I get to do this type of work and help people heal themselves, and I'm making an effort to use some of the revenue that I'm receiving as part of that work to then invest and support different communities in different areas where people might not receive the support and that they deserve. So, yeah, trying to make it more accessible and trying to invest my dollars wisely.

Andrea Enright 38:31

What are the rituals or practices or prayers that support your relationship with God in the universe?

Claudia Nanino 38:39

I mean, breath work is the most constant. I think everything else kind of rotates in and out. But if I'm not doing breath work, and this type of deeper breath work, you typically wouldn't do it more than like, maybe once a week, maybe if you have something more heavy happening, perhaps, but or in a retreat setting where you're kind of unplugged and being held, then yes, we could do consecutive sessions, but my personal practice is usually three, maybe four times a month. And I can tell as soon as I have let too much time pass, I just notice, like, I'm just showing up a little bit differently. I'm not trusting as much anymore. I'm starting to try to control things too much, like, which is my old pattern, I'm maybe a little more irritable than I would like to be, and so that type of deeper breath work is essential. I use other practices as well, especially in moments of stress or if I'm feeling anxious, or if I'm luckily I don't have too much trouble sleeping. But every once in a while, I do, and so I'll lean into a little short breath technique to help me drift off into sleep, and then, in terms of other rituals, movement is important to me. I find yoga is an essential part of how I'm feeling, physically, mentally and spiritually. I consider it to be a moving meditation. Otherwise, I'm not a daily meditator, but I do think meditation is. Very important. And so that is something I do with somewhat of a good frequency. I like to use things in the house, like I use a lot of Palo Santo or kapal almost daily, and it's just a nice way to just get into the present moment. Thinking about clearing the energy in my space. I have a lot of crystals. I'm very into crystals, and so I know what their individual properties are for. But if nothing else, I always tell people to like they're just a beautiful reminder of, of the magic of nature, of the the beauty of our planet, of they're just, they're like talismans to me, just kind of reminding me they're just beautiful points of connection whenever I see them or whenever I have them around. And then trying to think, what else, retreats are an important part of maintaining that connection strong. And so I host retreats, but more importantly, I attend retreats myself, at least, you know, two a year, sometimes for a year and again, very grateful that I'm able to do that, but I find that that's really important for me to unplug and let somebody else curate an experience for me that's going to reinforce that connection to spirit, reinforce that connection to God and and hopefully learn some new, some new things along the way.

Andrea Enright 41:24

Yeah, hear a beautiful practice of receiving there absolutely.

Claudia Nanino 41:29

I think receiving is very important to be held to receive to not have to be in control all the time.

Andrea Enright 41:39

You also mentioned, you mentioned the Four Agreements and another prayer that I'd never heard of. Do you want to talk a little bit about

Claudia Nanino 41:47

that The Four Agreements was one of the first most impactful books I read on this journey, and it's something I revisit often, and I think it's it's just valuable, especially when I think the one that resonates or that I've come back to over and over and over and over again, is not to take things personally. That is something that feels really important to do, because it's easy. It's so easy for me to take things personally. And when I remember that it's like not It's not usually about me, or it's not as much about me as I think, as it feels like it might be, then that helps to defuse the situation so much, and then helps me come to whatever the situation is with, with love. Like, I always love to come back to that phrase, like, what would love do? And the Four Agreements really helps me kind of come back to that like, okay, like, let's, let's remove this, this, if I'm feeling triggered, or this emotions that are arising and like, and it's not about being right, it's about like, what would love do in this situation. And then what was the other

Andrea Enright 42:43

I'd never heard of it before. It was the hoponopono

Claudia Nanino 42:47

prayer, oh, ho pono pono prayer, yeah, that's a Hawaiian prayer. It's, I'm sorry, please forgive me. I love you. Thank you. And I might have those mixed up, but that's essentially what it is. And it's again, similar to, like, what would love do in this situation? Like, whenever there's conflict, if you can come in with that prayer first, it just helps to kind of diffuse the situation. It brings in some accountability for yourself. And it's like, what's the end goal here? Is the end goal to be right? Or is the end goal to like, repair, repair in a way that feels good and conscious and fair? And it's not that you're giving up all your power at all, but it's just like you said, asking for forgiveness is so hard. So I find leaning into that prayer to be very helpful.

Janelle Orion 43:31

And for brave hearts, you want to listen to it. There's so many songs like on Spotify, if you type this in, you can find songs that sing it and chant it. And so sometimes the phrasing is like, the order is different, but it's, yeah,

Claudia Nanino 43:44

it's the whole oponopono prayer, and I believe it's, I'm sorry, please forgive me. I love you. Thank you.

Andrea Enright 43:52

As advice to our brave hearts, like, how would you suggest someone find their deepest belief or spiritual path, if, if they were seeking,

Claudia Nanino 44:01

I think in the the advice that I often give to people is like staying open, saying yes to a lot of different things, not being afraid to share where you are with other people, because they might have a resource for you, whether it's an author, whether it's a coach, Whether it's a class. When I was in the more darker period of this initial healing journey, like my policy was to say yes to everything and try as many different things as possible, and then find what resonated and what didn't. And I don't think I had any regrets on any things that I tried, but there are certainly some things that are like, okay, glad I tried that. I know this one's not for me, but oh, look, these other things are and I also tell people that that can change as you continue along the path. You know, the five things that maybe served you this year might look very differently next year. So just continuing to be open, continuing to try different things, and then finding like your unique. Toolkit of what supports you, what allows you to feel most connected, to remember to trust as often as possible. That's a big one for me, because, like, I didn't trust before. I also didn't believe. I thought vulnerability was really scary, and so by not trusting, I had to be in control of everything, and I had to be 10 steps ahead, and it was just like this constant, always in my mind, always in my mind. And then vulnerable felt like weakness. It felt like I'm unprotected, if I'm vulnerable. And so now I see vulnerability as a superpower. And now I see the more that I trust, the more things work out, the less that I try to control and the more that I trust that things are going to work out. Maybe it's not the outcome that I necessarily would have aimed for or desired, but can I trust that this outcome is going to serve me better instead? Yeah, wow, awesome. And that's that's can be hard too, you know, especially if there's something you really desire and you're like, Wow, I'm so disappointed that this didn't work out. And then usually not too much later, you're like, oh, it opened the door for this, like you were saying before, about creating that spaciousness, like, Oh, by letting go of that, it created the spaciousness for this. And, yeah, it's okay to be disappointed. It's okay to mourn something that you wanted, but then being open to what new possibilities might arise, because that door closed.

Andrea Enright 46:26

Yeah, Janelle used to say, feel deeply, hold lightly,

Claudia Nanino 46:30

yes,

Andrea Enright 46:33

yeah, I think we were talking about people at the time, but I think it also applies to attachments and outcomes.

Claudia Nanino 46:40

Yeah, absolutely.

Janelle Orion 46:42

I'm so appreciative of how articulate you are. Claudia, I feel like it's very accessible everything that you're saying and, yeah, I really feel like the openness with the intentionality of of use describing your journey. Yeah, I just, I can just really feel that a lot of brave hearts will be able to, like, lean in and be like, oh, oh, yeah,

Claudia Nanino 47:06

yeah. And I have a lot of compassion, you know, for when, when you're in those most challenging places, like, it's hard to see your way out of it. And, and I, you know, we, we've had this very beautiful discussion, but I don't want to make it seem like it was easy. What, you know it was, there was a lot of tears, there was a lot of sleepless nights, there was a lot of of shame, there was a lot of guilt, and it I'm very grateful that I was able to use that as a way to motivate me to find how was I going to clean this up? How was I going to ensure that I didn't find myself in this place again. How was I going to choose differently and show up differently and just be more in alignment with myself?

Andrea Enright 47:47

Yeah, thank you for sharing so vulnerably, like it's just, it's such a gift to to us and to the listeners, just to really hear how the journey has gone and and how you got to where you are. Beautiful. May I just add one more thing? Yes, absolutely. Because this

Claudia Nanino 48:06

is kind of just thinking me, thinking me of like, that connection to spirit and like what it feels like. And sometimes it's hard to like exactly know what it feels like. But one kind of measure for me is just, I like to think of it in terms of like, frequency and like, what are the things that are helping me raise my frequency and what are the things that are lowering it? And like, when I know when I'm feeling like I'm at a higher frequency or higher vibration, it's so much easier connect to connect to spirit. Like, there's, it's just clear, it's it feels more accessible, it feels more within reach. And then I know when I'm doing the things that are not great for my frequency and lowering it, then, yeah, it feels further away. I feel more separate. I feel less connected. And so again, that can come back to some of the modalities that we were talking about, just like finding those tools, finding those teachers. But then it could also be choices, like, what are you consuming? Like, what are you putting into your body? What are you putting into your brain? How much time are you spending on screens? Like, what is the type of news that you're consuming, you know? And just like, not judging anybody's choices, but just like, checking in constantly. And like, is this raising my frequency? Is this Orion my frequency? And how is that affecting my relationship to spirit.

Andrea Enright 49:21

Yeah, I love it. I was just a great check in for me as I like, oh, I have not been outside enough just in the last like three or four days, you know, just there's a wall between me and the outside and and I'm noting that I can feel that in my own, my own frequency. So thank you. Thanks for sharing that. Claudia. How can people find you?

Claudia Nanino 49:46

The easiest way is through my website or through Instagram. Those are the two places that people are where I have things most up to date in terms of what I'm offering and where I'll be also email is also lovely. Okay, what's your website? Yeah, my website is Amar, C, A, M, a, r, s, I dot love l, o, v, e, not a.com dot love the.com is something else weird, and the Instagram is at a Marcy dot Claudia, C, l, a, u, d, I, a, yeah. But also, if you, if nobody remembers that, if you search up breath work in Denver, I'm usually one of the top searches, or even breathwork and Claudia, I might find I'll be one of the top searches there. There's not a lot of Claudia is doing breath work.

Claudia Nanino 50:36

So lucky for you, not yet. Thank you so much for coming on. Permission to be human. I'm just I'm so honored that you are here and for

Claudia Nanino 50:44

all you shared. Thank you. It was an honor to be here, and I really enjoyed this conversation.

Janelle Orion 50:48

Yeah, it was a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Janelle Orion 50:51

Thanks for listening, brave hearts. We'll see you on episode two of season five. We love you. Hey,

Janelle Orion 51:02

brave Bravehearts, looking for permission, work with us. Andrea offers permission coaching, and Janelle offers erotic wellness sessions. Follow us on Instagram, meet us in real life at permission to be human workshops in Denver. Subscribe to our newsletter. Do all this and more at our website, permission to be human. Dot live you.