Ep 113: Part 13/12, Derik Says "Turn Down the Volume": How to Build a Relationship with God Series

Janelle and Andrea interview Derik, a yoga instructor who offers a majorly meta-view on spirituality. They discuss the difference between religion and spirituality, why “we’re only human” is a phrase with the wrong idea, the concept of "Pancha Kosha," the five layers of human existence and the paradox of it all. He asks: Who would we be if we turned the volume down on everything we’re told? You’ll hear:

-Why yoga is a user's manual for realization

-When the personality equation stops working

-The dissolution of self in the collective

-Why we are both the wave and the ocean

-Spirituality isn’t always about that “aha” dramatic moment

-How his spiritual journey started at Elephanta Island near Mumbai

-Derik’s resonance around the word “God”

-How America is less moored from spirituality than so many cultures

Find Derik Eselius online at Denver Yoga Underground - Yoga Teacher Training & Workshops

TRANSCRIPT:

Janelle Orion 0:00

Janelle, struggling to discuss sex and intimacy with your partner, not feeling met, seen or heard in your relationships. I'm Janelle And I'm Andrea. We're two midlife Mavericks sharing our own experiences, messy, AF and no regrets with marriage, divorce, polyamory and pleasure. We've learned that when you're brave enough to figure out what you want and ask for it, with partners, friends, family and most importantly, yourself, you'll feel more alive and free question everything, especially your mother's advice. There's no rom com formula for this. But don't panic. Being alone matters, honey, I can't miss you if you don't leave, what if your breakup could be your breakthrough? Our podcast is for brave hearts. Anyone who seeks or has found the courage to confront their fears and limiting beliefs about breaking societal norms in the spirit of finding their truth. If you're seeking permission to be brave in your relationships and want to feel less alone along the way, we got you. I think this guest embodies the permission to be human principles in a really beautiful way. Yes, Derek was very articulate, and what I noticed was the pace at which his soul expressed totally like I slowed down. Yes, I was breathing more, right? This yoga instructor like his, his practice permeates, his words, his breath, his everything.

Andrea Enright 1:38

Yeah, it's all cohesive for him. You can tell that his relationship with spirit is woven into the way he moves through the world. And there were some really beautiful analogies and visuals that he presented so much poignancy, just beautiful. Yeah, slow down and take a listen. You

Andrea Enright 2:04

Hi, brave hearts, welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea and I'm Janelle, and this is season five, building a relationship with spirit.

Janelle Orion 2:16

Last episode. Yeah.

Andrea Enright 2:20

Really excited today to interview my friend Derek, and Janelle is gonna introduce him and tell us all about him.

Janelle Orion 2:30

Yeah, Derek is from Santa Cruz, California, and says He cultivates insight more than passion, preferring to see clearly rather than through a filter of passion or enthusiasm. He digs, hiking meditative practices, hosting conscious events and taking care of his family.

Janelle Orion 2:50

Is that all true? Still, you want to add anything.

Derik Eselius 2:53

Well, as of a month ago, when I wrote that, that was the space I was in, I think the thing that kind of jumps off the page. There is, you know, passion or dispassion and and how that pertains or doesn't pertain to life path and fulfilling life path. So there's, there's a number of things to tease apart in in that sentence, but for the most part, sounds familiar.

Janelle Orion 3:21

Okay, all right, I think, Well, I think we'll come back to that. Let's, let's bookmark that. Yeah, I first met Derek, ever so briefly. Derek, I don't even know if you remember, we just had a very mild like a couple an exchange for two minutes in the kitchen of the Sixth Avenue Community Church, where my choir sings, and where Derek has a yoga class, and just about in two minutes of chatting with him, I felt seen. So I knew that he was kind of a special person, but I didn't really know him. And then my boyfriend, Kevin, is a longtime student of Derek's, and took me to his yoga class. And it was unlike any yoga class that I had been in before. Describe it as austere, philosophical human ego, battling and challenging with just a little bit of comic relief. How does that? What do you think? No, I think that

Derik Eselius 4:15

was perfect. Yeah, it can be an acquired taste, for sure.

Janelle Orion 4:18

Yeah, I liked it. Yeah, I liked it. It's also in a room where it is such a stripped down room, and I think that is in such contrast to a lot of the yoga studios I'm in, where there's prayer flags and cotton plants and Buddha statues, which I also love. It's two different flavors, but this particular flavor is very simple and stripped bare, and it felt like a good emptying for me. So that's my that's my review of your yoga class.

Derik Eselius 4:51

Thanks for coming. Haven't seen you since. Yeah, I'm afraid it's on a night that I. Typically cannot. Sorry about that.

Derik Eselius 5:03

Yeah, I appreciate the exception being the exception.

Janelle Orion 5:06

Derek. Let's just start here. How did you first start building a relationship with God and wait, we have to start with this story. Sorry. Let me back up. What do you call this higher being? Or do you call it anything at all, Spirit, God, the universe.

Derik Eselius 5:21

I like that because that's a bigger, bigger in road where we can all meet. You know, my particular point of entry or story and stuff is, is very specific in particular, but whenever i i share, always as much as possible. Like to begin with, the tone that we can all kind of sync up with or reflect on, or something that well, in the case of a yoga studio class, something we can all easily just say yes to from the start. Now, definition of God, there's, there's some varying perspectives to be had here, but let's start big, big picture like this. I would just say it's not fixed when we begin with with something like that, that there's I was sharing with students just this past weekend, and it just kind of came through me, and I just said, God is not an object, right? So most of how we navigate life and self is very kind of subject object, kind of relationship where, you know, I'm over here manipulating things, trying to attain some level of satisfaction, or, you know, being met, and whether that's within my own thoughts or or the outer environment, there's this ongoing sort of contrast between subject and object and the god space, the like, you know, in my reflection and and experience like, those boundaries are less the defining feature of, say, intimate relationship with God. And it's, it's less about the particulars or that I, you know, wrote something that was meme worthy, that that is like the shareable object of God. Rather, there's like something more, like a singular recognition that speaks louder than any possible word. So it's self defining and transcendent of ultimately, you know, because God infuses the life space as well. But a kind of rarefied, deeper dimension of the god experience or equation is all this boundary of subject and object seem to fall away and there's just God is known, the report from the front lines sounds like and the yoga tradition makes a number of distinctions about different kind of resonant relationships that are available in in the god space, and once more, this kind of singular, absolute, what we might call non dual or pure consciousness kind of view. And then there's what's called Bhagavan, which is a more personal relationship with divinity. And this is where it start. One's approach to divinity is is more, say, personified, and there's more particulars, you know, like help me with my circumstance. Or there may be a like we see, but here, who's technically not a, you know, God figure, but that could be a longer conversation. Or the Yantras, for that matter, behind us. Those are divinities as well, and goddesses, in fact. And the Janelle is the colorful paintings. That's another kind of in road or communication or relationship that is possible on the god frontier. And as a seeker, I'm open to either, you know, I'm invested, I got stock in the singular enterprise and more the dynamic enterprise, because I am a sentient creature, and I do have feelings and desires and and and disturbances and like, want a friend.

Janelle Orion 9:39

That's beautiful, though. I think it gave us a nice meta of your approach to your relationship and what you're seeking with that. How did you first start building or when did this come to you in life?

Derik Eselius 9:54

So I didn't grow up with any particular faith in in my household and. And when I graduated high school in 1990 I had an opportunity to travel the world with number of other students, and it was a time of reorienting my kind of view and understanding of self and purpose and what's next. And the trip was a great outlet to explore those things, and we visited 16 different countries over the course of six months, and gradually made our way around the world. It was uncharacteristic. It's not like I premeditated on this so much, but I felt drawn to a curiosity about what I framed at the time as religion, like, why is religion so prominent in the human experience, and why is it span cultures? That sounds like a very kind of adult way of framing it, but that's what my 18 year old mind thought at the time, like, what is this thing about? It would just test as best I can spend time in sacred spaces around the world. And it kind of all came together on what's called elefante Island, outside of what was then Bombay.

Andrea Enright 11:15

Was yoga your way into the spirituality? Or were you seeking the religion

Derik Eselius 11:20

first, it started off as religion, which is, it's a bigger vehicle, it's a societal scale vehicle, whereas the distinction I've come to adopt is spirituality is more of a an individual's quest, and which can be shared among you. Know, can be scaled in different ways. And I kind of slipped into more of that lane come India.

Janelle Orion 11:51

I love to just recap, because what I heard there, and I like this visual, right, is that the difference between religion is it's a society scale vehicle in your words, and then spirituality is our individual expression.

Derik Eselius 12:07

Yes, though I don't want to overly glorify the individual aspect of it, because I that can be something of a trap when it's, you know, my spirituality to the exclusion of, you know, my significant relationships, and you know, it's me glowing in me, those things. But another way of sort of framing all that is to say that the sort of Cornerstone interest in religion sounds more like belief like here's the prescribed belief system that's central to, in many ways, central to the process, and whereas spirituality tends to lean more towards realization. So there's supportive theories and things to consider believing, but the ultimate sort of test on that, the real medal on that is coming to some intimate, personal realization or recognition, and that can be done as an individual, Lone meditator, or it could be done like as a tribe, like we're collectively, you know, the Sundance. What does

Andrea Enright 13:19

your individual relationship with God look like right now.

Derik Eselius 13:23

That sounds like intimate listening. And to listen adequately, it's it's necessary to turn down the dial and all the static and noise and judgments and opinions and preferences and desires and hopes and dreams and aspirations and disappointments. Like, if you can find the volume switch for that and just turn it down and let go a bit, then, then you'll probably hear something similar to, how do you think you've learned to do that? Practice is no way around it. It's like, if you want to get, you know, really good at bow hunting skills, or computer hacking skills, numb check skills, takes practice. You know, any one of those things, it doesn't just, you know, just pick up a pair of num checks. You try. It's probably not going to be that graceful first time, but if you tend to, it's like a garden or something. You know, if you what you put in is what you get out. So, and there's lots of different methodologies to tend to. Some methods are ring a little louder or provide more feedback than others. I think the most essential thing is feedback. One way or another. We're always getting feedback. I think as a seeker, you need to reflect on the feedback that you're getting, whatever your methodology is, yeah.

Andrea Enright 14:51

Can you give me examples of methodology and feedback?

Derik Eselius 14:54

Well, we'll take something really kind of basic and straightforward. Would be meditation, right? I. Yeah, so meditation, the there's a number of ways to spin it, but the basic game goes something like, hone in on a point of concentration, classic meditation. So there's other ones that are more dynamic than this, but and there could be like, a dynamic lead up that gets you to the one point, and when one sort of communes or empties with this with this point, this point is none other than all the points it sounds we were talking about mystical earlier, but there's now. It gets a little more complicated from there, but, you know, we talked about turning down the volume, right? So that's what one point helps us do, is turn down all the other things at will, and then there's a kind of frequency to be a part of when there's less static and in the air.

Andrea Enright 16:04

Is yoga one of your methodologies for accessing that quiet

Derik Eselius 16:12

Absolutely, it's the user's manual for realization. And I do want to give you know due credit and credence to other cultures around the world and how they've cultivated spirituality in in just straight up within the culture itself, like it's not this. Like, add on then. Now here's my spiritual block and my hour of meditation in the morning and and, you know, I'm walled myself off from, you know, the household. There's ways of doing it that are, that are more integrated than than what I'm describing, and it's sort of part of the rhythm of life. I feel that we're in our corner of the globe a little unmoored from those practices. That's a very broad statement, but I've seen it more intimately woven in other places in

Andrea Enright 17:07

the world. Yeah, that's beautiful. Sounds beautiful. This cohesive,

Derik Eselius 17:11

which is beautiful, exactly, yeah, yeah, dance, song, right? Worship, you know, ritual. There's so many the things and around the globe, around the globe, ordeal that's one too, like a collective or I mentioned the Sundance, that's a collective ordeal, among many other things. You know,

Janelle Orion 17:32

there's something for me in my experience, there's like an embodiment or a knowing that's not coming directly through my mind, and I feel like it's probably true for you as well, given everything else you're saying. But the term realization is not the is not the word that I use to describe my experience of the oneness of God, okay. And is yoga like, kind of preparing your body, so in a way, to, like, create this space somehow in the human being for the realization to come through, is it sort of like the prep work?

Derik Eselius 18:08

Yes, it's a broad vocabulary we could use here, and I'm kind of fond of the old fashioned classics like I'm not. I'm less fearful about saying God in in the yoga class space, because I feel like a kind of resonance around, well, I at least I know what I'm talking think I know what I'm talking about, you know. And realization might be one of these sort of, you know, bigger climactic terms. But another way, other words for realization might be, you know, insight or or discovery, or, quite simply, you know, the fruit of curiosity, that there's some aha in the space, however subtle or gross, like, realization tends itself to, like, oh, there's this, like, dramatic shift that, you know, thing that happened, and then the continent split off in that direction. This is more like, Oh, I'm angry right now, you know, can he, as opposed to living out that anger, you know, is a realization of sorts. It's I realize, I realize this, not that. And as far as the medium of yoga, there's, there's many branches and and inroads. The song space is, is one of those. The dance space is one of those. Then there's more kind of formal things that we tend to think of as yoga, the postures, breathing, meditation, chanting, is in there as well. So basically, the methodologies draw upon what's already prevalent in our human experience, and then how do you. To shape the primal ingredients of the human experience in a way that's conducive to things like realization. And what are the primal ingredients of the human experience is none other than your body, your breath has is along for the ride wherever you go and anywhere you think is also fertile territory for for the practice of yoga. So these just start there with those three. Those are constant companions in our felt life experience. It's not so much that we experience the world as we experience ourself, right? And where does that experiencing occur, if not in your body and in your breath and in your mind, and so that's like way upstream, right, not exactly, quite the headwaters, but getting considerably closer to how life occurs within an individual.

Andrea Enright 21:03

I think you also use the water metaphor when you talked about a relationship with God and a relationship with self. In fact, you said those two things are distinct yet interrelated, like the ocean and the waves. Can you say more? More about that?

Derik Eselius 21:27

You know, most days I get the distinct impression that I'm I'm separate, and there's a whole personality invested in this feeling separate business. And there's a whole like emotional library that's also invested in feeling very separate. And somewhere along the way, I like adopted or learned all those things with greater or lesser degree of conviction. And I guess a question for us to consider is, you know, who would we be in the absence of all those voices? Who would we be in the absence of of this kind of all the presumptions? This is the way life is. This is the way I am. This is how others should treat me. Like if the volume on all that turned down, what would be there? What would be in that space? And like sifting through all those sound, all that sound things, they get quieter and they also get more universal. So experience of self, or the experience of what I identify with, becomes broader and broader and broader, and things, things like love in their fullness, are available, and that's more of a like, a like thing that fills rooms sometimes, right? Maybe you experience that inquire like, Ah, this isn't my love. This is our, you know the love. It's identifying less with, say, the waves on the surface of the ocean, but you know, my identity, traveling through space and all the particulars and everything, and just being able to relax enough to recognize one's nature as not just the wave, but simultaneously the ocean, or that the deeper body really is, is the ocean. You know, how big is a wave relative to the vast expanse, not to mention depth of the beloved ocean.

Andrea Enright 23:47

Thank you. Yeah, that's really beautiful. That's available saying anytime

Derik Eselius 23:56

with practice. I mean, I make it, maybe I make it sound special or exceptional, but this is the sort of deeper fabric of of who we are when it gets down to it, and sometimes something like loss will bring that out glaringly. You can't hold on anymore. It's too painful, or it's you just accept that you're not in control and let go enough to like, the personality equation stops working. Yeah, when there's enough stress or adversity, it's like, you know, all the things that I been holding on to and presuming and everything like, just break. Maybe you've experienced that, and in your own life, there's certain, many, many accounts. I know I've, I've kind of come to that place.

Andrea Enright 24:45

I think you've just like, named like, for me, another reason that I like choir, because there is just this almost like a dissolute, like, like a dissolving of self, right? They're just like, Oh, it doesn't have, it's just, it's. Less pressure. I guess I'm just in this group singing, and, of course, I also just get a The One Thing high from it, yeah, it's just one, right? Instead of 35 of us. And that is just like, oh, I can just kind of like, relax or surrender, like I'm relieved of my personal accountability to the world,

Derik Eselius 25:22

yeah, well, given the choice, you know, I mentioned pain and adversity as an inroad. You know, that's also a possibility on the event horizon of spiritual understanding. And thankfully,

Andrea Enright 25:37

yeah, is there a way that relationship with Spirit helps you find peace amidst the suffering in the world. Maybe we just answered that. I'm not sure if they're one in the same.

Derik Eselius 25:50

Spirit is peace. Imagine the absence of friction. What's in that place? Something more universal, something that that may sound a little bit more sound and feel and noticeably is more like contentment. I could certainly summon examples that feel far more like pressing and consequential, and, you know, I would be concerned for myself, if I, if I, like, tried to spiritually bypass the everything. And, you know, I think that's duly worth considering here as well. And there is a certain drama to this earth. There's a certain drama to to history and all the events that have led up to now and how now is unfolding. There's a dramatic version of all that, and it can be really disturbing and unsettling. And you know, people's lives are lost and in in the mix. And you know, how do you come to terms with that, and how does that pertain to spirituality? And in part, what I was indicating earlier, when we cloister our individuated you know my fulfillment practice that is for me exclusively so that I can experience peace and to the utter exclusion of the world around us. It's not full it's not the complete picture.

Janelle Orion 27:35

I think what I'm hearing you say is, if someone is is saying, Oh, I'm on my spiritual journey for my individual goals, then that, in and of itself, is a spiritual bypass, because my experience has been once you have touched the one point, the one life God You know for this however brief moment of time, then that, by nature, is a collective experience or love or expression. So it's like it can't be individual. Yeah, if you've if you've touched the quality, then that you automatically want to share it to support the collective well being.

Derik Eselius 28:25

Yeah, Janelle, there's, there's a lot of little nuggets in, in what you just shared. I'm kind of drawn to the word universal. So you experience something universal that that is the deeper fabric of the many waves that are on this ocean. And dramas, you know, the dramatic, dramatic play of this earth has its own waves, and they're, you know, part of the ocean, yet separate. And when we can tap into sort of a deeper current on things, it gives a lot of perspective to all the particulars. We can see that they have their kind of life cycle and come and go and and whatnot. And you know, if we're moved by something by like love and compassion, I don't think we can help but have regard for those, at a minimum, those who are in our sphere of influence and try to do right and intend and uplift them as best we can. And maybe that sphere gets a little bigger. You know, in my case, that's the yoga space where I try to fill people's well and orient towards something more sane. And, you know, this podcast probably an attempt in in that direction as well. So we kind of, for me, the spirituality takes shape in the outer space in the form of, kind of doing the best way. With the particular deck that I've been dealt. You know, my my capacities, my skill set, whatever resources I have, intention, etc, to play my role as fully, fully as possible, from what I'm picking up on your brand and things, I think you align with this principle of leading a bit more boldly with our capacities. Like, sometimes the human experience is painted as this kind of downer, like, you're only human. Of course, you're gonna make mistakes. That's yeah, that's true, but don't stop there. You know, you've been you've been gifted with this extraordinary mind, which you know has the potential to either be your worst Nemesis or your greatest ally, and like figuring out the levers to work with your capacity and potential and your your your acuity is the work of a spiritual practice such that you know we can live more fully, not only into this life, but inevit Invariably, unless your wheelhouse is the monastic cave. And I think there's a space for those people too, but for you and I here, the ripple becomes like a magnet, like I'm in this as much for my students at this point as I am for myself. And just want to bring it, you know, and that's what I have. I want to bring it fully. Hence, no fancy decor.

Janelle Orion 31:45

And, yeah, totally, because you've been practicing at that church for a decade. Is that right? 2009 2009 16 years.

Derik Eselius 31:57

And this is called the, you know, permission to be human. What's your take on permissioning yourself to be human? Like, what is that for you?

Janelle Orion 32:09

At the root of it, it's listening to my heart. And my heart's language is one of God and the divine, and the more I can listen and act on my heart's desires without resistance, then the more I'm living my most fully expressed human life, and it requires like courage and permission to because what my heart is telling me is not what culture, religion or family told me, my life and humanness is supposed to look like.

Andrea Enright 32:55

That's really the summary of the podcast. This is what we're talking about. Is that I and I've learned so often resisting what my body actually wants because I'm so set on a track to follow the script each time I get a little bit better at it and building that muscle, reducing the resistance. It's already been a long, a long journey, but I do get better and better at it, and I'm just as with anything, just if I was going to use num trucks, or if I was doing this, I get a little better at at recognizing it. So now the idea is that the resistance to

Andrea Enright 33:40

what I want is the thing that stands out instead of the thing I'm doing all the time. It's the anomaly. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm resisting what I actually want there. I better check into that. But the mind is very strong, and cultural conditioning is very strong. It's very deep, and it it is a default. It's a I used to call it like a weeble people, just like, you can knock it down a lot, but it is going to pop back up unless you smash it to millions pieces and put it in the garbage like it's just very deep. And I'm amazed at how many times I have to learn those lessons.

Janelle Orion 34:16

The other piece is that each of us have our own language, right, or the language of the heart, and what it's inviting us to be and become. And so on this podcast, you know, we're not telling anyone what to do, right? But even interviewing you as an example is, we're not saying, Oh, now go take yoga classes, but we're giving people permission to hear that someone found their peace and contentment through yoga. So it's just an idea that breaks open, hopefully something in them that told them it had to look a different way, and this is just giving permission that their way can look. Whatever the way

Andrea Enright 35:00

that it is, yeah, it's permission to choose, right? And that there are multiple choices for all of us, yeah, for all of us, and in any institution in marriage and parenthood and career in ice skating, in traveling, in living in finances like in num Jux. And the quicker we can decide, okay, I'm going to make do this my way. Then the quicker we find our truth.

Janelle Orion 35:26

And my way, ultimately, is God's way, right? If, like, the My way is of the heart, right? This is where I feel, Derek, like you led us in the beginning about, like, not really putting the individual first is, like, it's not, actually, it's not, actually, it's not the individual like, Oh, here's janelle's thing. It's, oh, if I'm really listening to my heart, and my heart is part of this one life, then like, my desires are a collective desire.

Andrea Enright 35:54

Yeah, would you say that, Janelle, that's the life force like that comes online if, if I'm if I'm choosing, then it becomes God's desire, and that's when my life force is

Janelle Orion 36:07

activated. No, I wouldn't put it in that. I would.

Andrea Enright 36:11

I don't quite understand.

Derik Eselius 36:13

Wow, that's, that's a big one. I mean, I'm happy to knock that one around.

Andrea Enright 36:19

Yeah, I'm confused about the my because it is my way, but yet I understand what you're saying. So, yeah, Derek, go ahead.

Derik Eselius 36:25

So there's various dimensions or layers to our person, you know, one level consciously, we kind of maybe take a snapshot. Okay, there's more or less a one me here, and that's a semi informed understanding. I once took a rafting trip down the Grand Canyon. And the further you go down this thing, the further you go back in time, really. And so when you get to the bottom, you're like, you're looking at rocks that are 1.2 billion years old, and they have this, they're called, like, Shiva, something rock. And I'm like, well, you're blowing my mind right now. You know it's like that with us too. We have different grades of different bodies and just just to kind of keep it in the yoga lane, because this is what I'm most informed about. There's a model called pancha Kosha, which means our kind of five layers or sheath. They're called the sheaths are referred to as bodies as as intimately real, if not more so than your material body. So not surprisingly, that's the outermost sheath or or layer of our person. Like there's all this chain of events of of development that finally, kind of mature into the shape of of this particular body. And not to get into all the particulars of all four, but let's just say that underneath mana Maya Kosher or anumaya Kosha, your physical body, there's what's called your prana Maya Kosha, or your your energy, body and your energy. So back to what I was saying before. It's not so much that we experience the world as we experience our own energy. Much of that is playing out on the prana Maya Kosha level, you know. And it's not even that mystical. It's like sensation, like the body of sensation you're holding right now, there's a material layer to what's going on, but then there's a kind of resonance or vibe or frequency to to this person also. And they're they're related, but they're also kind of distinct. And then if you keep peeling back the layers. Underneath that is manamaya Kosha, which is, let's keep it simple and just say, like, like, that's your kind of ordinary mind, or your sometimes called lower mind. And then behind that is something called the gyanamaya Kosha, which is the body of intuitive wisdom. Is one term that's used. So this is higher understanding. This is the part of your mind that might pick up on, you know, you're thinking of someone, and then, like, a text arrives in the next instant. You're like, being my mana. Maya was like, or big Janelle. Maya was like, picking up on the thing, and then behind that is Ananda mayakosa, which is sort of your It's the deepest you. It's you without any baggage. Maybe you've had those moments where you danced or cried or or like, just like grief, you let it all go, and you're like, kind of left with. This kind of Holy shit, you know, here I am. I So missed and loved you, you know, like this opening into original person, that's more the flavor of this. Ananda, my cousin, Ananda means bliss, right? It's joy, it's joy of finding yourself is tapping into an under my echo show, right? And it's very different than, say, your body like, oh, shit, gotta take out the trash, you know, you're like, those layers of identity, and behind that is Atman, or, you know, thus self, like you're the soul, soul, capital, s self. So you asked about, like, where we pick up energy, and essentially, the clearer the vessel, all the best and all its progressive layers, through the five koshas, or through, through the five bodies, or she's the clearer the whole transmission and frequency or pulse there is moving through this space. I understand myself. You know, I'm in sync with my intuition. My thoughts are clear, and it's reflected my energy. I'm kind of vibrant, and you may or may not have great health at that point, but it's more likely that you will, if you're all linked up, and the energy is there and the insights there, and the body's most you know, body is always variable, but there's something to tap into and in the syncing up of the various parts of our person all the way back to the original person. There's the kind of multiplied version of divinity, and then there's a singular version. So this is the Orion. Orion. It's a

Andrea Enright 41:57

good visual. I actually started picturing like the nesting dolls, right? The Russian just like, you know, it's really just, like, deeper and a little deeper and a little deeper.

Derik Eselius 42:06

Yeah, right? And something like kosher gives us kind of a map so we understand the landmarks. I mean, we've talked about feeling into our heart and everything. And I'm, I'm daily vigil, or in that regard. And you know, it helps to have some guidance, too. If that wasn't true, there wouldn't be this podcast, right? Like, I hope, on some level, we're trying to provide people with little perspective or things that that are helpful, you know? So I find something like the map of hot Kos has helped me in understanding my own experience and kind of where I am on the map of existence.

Andrea Enright 42:48

What's coming to me now too is just this cohesive theme across the many interviews we've had, is that we must cultivate this state of being alone. We must cultivate the state of stillness if we want to, in fact, go deeper into ourselves and take away some of those, those outer shells, and also access spirit. And ultimately, this is part of why we started the podcast, was that I was spending more time alone. I was really uncomfortable because I was exploring polyamory, and I was like, this is really uncomfortable. I don't like this. I don't like being alone. What am I supposed to do now? And, you know, sort of getting through that discomfort of recognizing that there were multiple layers. And I know I'm I'm dumbing this down kind of purposely so that we can, like, keep it concrete, but I really love the idea of accepting and continuing to understand these different layers. Yeah.

Derik Eselius 43:53

I mean, we have many needs and desires, and I think we're hardwired to be in relationship on many, many levels. I mean, the food that's in my refrigerator now is not solely by my hand. You know, we are in an interdependent web here, and you know, to keep it concrete, what I'm hearing is, is some reflection around they socially relationally being isolated, wanting connection as well. And they're both. They're both important needs. One of the great blessings in this life is that I have my greater yoga community or lineage that I return to, and there's elders there, and there's next generation people there, and we're you know as Ram Dass. Said, we're all kind of walking one another home, yeah, like that one, I didn't start like that. I thought it was more of a lone wolf operation in my 20s, say, and kind of ran that to the hill. Just was met with my more of my own confusion. I think the we is an integral part of the spiritual life, particularly, I'm not going to pin it on any any age, but in in an age where there's a lot of forces convincing us that we're separate, the volume on the rumor of separation is pretty loud. It's high time we would come together consciously. And song, like you're saying, is such a beautiful medium for people. It's so accessible. You know, this whole one pointed thing, it takes a lot of dedication to develop that skill, you can express it another way, kind of work in from the edges, you know, that's what these Okay, let's look at Sri Yantra above there, you know, and you can kind of see it in the thing, but it's the top most Yantra, and there's 64 little triangles, like doing their whole dance. This is the many facets of of the life experience to greatly simplify, but they're all of import and significance, and as are the rings and the gates and things. But if we were to zoom in, what we see is as a point, what's called Bindu, which means seed. It's a seed. It's the Genesis. It's the god principle at the center of the greater dance that we're in. And whether that dance is on a cosmic scale, or your own individual life process, or how you're navigating a conversation, all the components we talked about, maps, like all, all the facets of this great human experience are accounted for in that particular rendering. Rendering into, including the thing that is not an object, and in infused within all of it yet is independent simultaneously. That's the bin do.

Andrea Enright 47:22

Wow. This, this has been a cosmic conversation at such a meta level, looking at relationship with spirit in a whole different way.

Derik Eselius 47:33

I'm sorry. I don't know how to be normal. You know,

Andrea Enright 47:41

this is why we had you all. This is why I knew that you would be a good guest. A completely, yeah, just another angle. Thank you so much for coming on. Is there anything else you'd like to add? And would you like to tell our brave hearts where they can find your yoga class or how they might access you.

Derik Eselius 48:02

I feel very satiated. Thank you. It's been a been a joy to tune in a bit with you all and reflect honestly. You know what I hold to be most important? There's many pursuits and some lead one to greater integration, wholeness and fullness and things, which is on my end of the value spectrum, you know, like I tend to value those things, and some of them are less that. And there's a rascally kid in here too that likes to find out where the edges of what feeds, what really feeds. So, yeah, I found this to be very enriching. Thank you, and to share what what kind of matters over here anyway. Thank you. Thank you, beautiful. As for you know, follow up you want to dip in and and spend some time together, probably the most the best resource for that is Denver yoga underground. That's my my website in operation, really, that's my big project, Denver, yoga, underground, just data.com, to that, and you get plugged into our offerings. We do have some online. So no matter where you are on this great, beautiful earth, that pathway is there, great.

Andrea Enright 49:40

Well. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for your presence and your wisdom. Yeah.

Janelle Orion 49:46

Thank you, Derek, yeah. Thank you for your commitment to your path.

Derik Eselius 49:51

Thank you fellow humans, all right, Bravehearts,

Janelle Orion 49:56

thank you for listening, Bravehearts, we'll see you next time. Bye, bye.

Janelle Orion 50:07

Hey, Bravehearts, looking for permission. Work with us. Andrea offers permission coaching, and Janelle offers erotic wellness sessions. Follow us on Instagram, meet us in real life at permission to be human workshops in Denver. Subscribe to our newsletter. Do all this and more at our website. Permission to be human. Dot live you.