Braveheart Conversations are all the (cou) rage now. They inquire and Janelle and Andrea offer insights, with lots of juicy, glittery tidbits. In this Braveheart Conversation recap, they discuss relationship balance, hard conversations, permission to be your full self and capital B for Boundaries. There’s a nod to Tristan Taormeino’s book Opening Up and Galaxie Glister, our favorite glitterati. You’ll hear:
--Why balance (in sex, love and everything else) is a big fat illusion
--Hands-on tactics and skills for hard conversations
--How caretaking (gasp) is sometimes in conflict with self-joy
--Why disappointing others is inevitable-and also a gift
--Why Hilary Clinton was right about the village
TRANSCRIPT:
Janelle Orion 0:01
Andrea, hi friend, hi friend. And
Andrea Enright 0:03
to the brave hearts listening out there. Welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea
Janelle Orion 0:08
and I'm Janelle.
Andrea Enright 0:08
Get ready for some real time relationship. Woo
Janelle Orion 0:11
and wisdom from the front lines with occasional tantrums and tears about
Andrea Enright 0:15
how breaking rules, blurring boundaries and tossing tradition can be catalysts for finding your truth.
Janelle Orion 0:20
Let's debunk the fairy tales we were told as children and create a new map for life. Yes, Disney can go fuck itself if you're seeking permission to choose your own path. Freedom is the new F word. People and want to feel less alone along the way, we got you. Please
Andrea Enright 0:36
note, this is our side of the story. Our partners and metamours have their own individual experiences, and we do not speak for them.
Good morning. Janelle, Hey, Andrea,
how you doing? You look radiant.
Janelle Orion 0:58
Thank you. Yes, yeah, I feel it.
Andrea Enright 1:03
You do. You're blooming flowers and butterflies. Yes, yes.
Janelle Orion 1:07
There's all that rain that happened this week. Oh, I loved that rain. Yeah, I stayed upstairs under the temple, under the skylight, and just watched the rain and then the lightning storm. Oh,
Andrea Enright 1:16
that's beautiful. It was really beautiful. I would love to do that. Oh, that's, yeah, that's amazing. Okay. Well, speaking of this, we're gonna talk about today about our in real life conversations, Brave Heart conversations that we've had, yes, and we like interacting with our people in real life, in real life, IRL and so let's just start out with a little some stories about our glitter and how that helps us interact with people. Yes, I Yes. Let's do it. All right. Wanna hear your story. Little story, okay, about the glitter on your boobs.
Janelle Orion 1:52
Glitter on my boobs. All right, so my I have been getting mammograms now for 20 years. I've been going every year since I was 30, because of my family history. Oh, every year, every year. So a lot of boob smashing, smashing, yes, yes. And this time around, I went for my annual and, you know, for anyone who's gone for mammogram, you know you're not supposed to have deodorant on or lotion on, perfume, perfume and all that. Yeah. So I had showered, but I hadn't really paid attention to the fact that I had covered my throat chakra and glitter the day before and hadn't scrubbed it off. So I got there, and I was like, Oh no, I have all this glitter on my chest. So I used their little wipes and, like, scrubbed it. Used like five of the wipes. But I was like, Uh, I find, like, certain lights, you can still see it. So I had to be
Andrea Enright 2:43
hard to get off, yes, so
Janelle Orion 2:45
I went in and I had to say to my technician. I was like, so I just want you to know I have glitter on my boobs, and I don't know if that's gonna impact the mammogram. She's like, Oh, I don't know. Let me see. So we had to do a test. We did a glitter test at a glitter test. So she took the picture, and she's like, Oh, I can see this little thing, but I think it's fine, like, I can. She's like, I don't think it looks like anything other than now that I know that it's glitter. So she's like, let me check with the radiologist. So then the radiologist had to look at the picture. The radio radiologist gave a thumbs up. All good. So now we know at least traces amounts of glitter are okay for mammogram. Oh,
Andrea Enright 3:29
my God, okay, good to know, yeah, because it's like, it's almost always on me now, like, because even when I went running yesterday, and then I, like, caught myself in the mirror, and I was like, oh, running outfit with glitter, yes.
Janelle Orion 3:41
Nice little shiny touch Yes, like the sun rays coming down you you're just like, you know, like, yeah, glow as you're wedding
Andrea Enright 3:47
and Okay, so awesome, good to know. This is how glitter interacts with real life. I was at a wedding reception this weekend for my cousin and she got married in Chicago a few months ago, but we had the reception here at my mother in law's house, and there was, like, meet like 70 people there. And so I brought my cluster Twitter, and I was just so excited to, like to start offering it to people. And, oh,
I mean, by the end that there's this, like, massive dance party. Everyone is, like, rocking out. We're
all jumping around. Oh, my cousin did the lift from Dirty Dancing with my husband in the rain storming. And my husband, like, ran and, like, my cousin lifted him up, and it was a total disaster, right? But he got him a little bit above his head, and then they all just like, fell. And then my husband, your husband's like, Oh my God, it was amazing. But the point was that as you looked around, like everyone had glitter on their chest,
Janelle Orion 4:50
you were spreading the message, yes,
Andrea Enright 4:54
my brother in law was like, about, I don't know, half an hour, hour, and he's like, Oh my gosh. Andrea. I'm looking around. It's just six degrees of Andrea, because I know I see the glitter, and I'm like, oh, Andrea talked to that person. Oh, she's been with that person. So it was really fun. And people just received it really well, and were excited, and it just gave a little magic to the whole night.
Janelle Orion 5:15
And so did you just like, you know, here you are. And obviously you knew most of these people, but did you just go up to them and bake. Hey, want some glitter? Yeah? So, I
Andrea Enright 5:22
mean, I knew probably two thirds of the people there, okay, but yeah, I would just say, Hi, did you want some glitter? And they're like, yeah, like, I'm Andrea. Oh, I'm
Kelsey. Oh, it's great to meet you. Thanks. How does
Janelle Orion 5:33
this work? You know, that's
Andrea Enright 5:34
how the conversation went. And, you know, we're in a festive mood. And I was, I would say, you know, half the guys also took me up on the glitter proposal.
Janelle Orion 5:44
Yeah, great. And for anyone who doesn't know, brave hearts, our preferred glitter is Galaxy Glister, because it's glitter that is actually, like, whatever, mixed into aloe and so that, yeah, the base of it is aloe. And so it's not like, it's glitter, that it's like flex around, right? You're not just like, yeah, it's actually like, almost like a lotion. That is, it's like a gel. It feels like a gel, yeah, right. So it's aloe gel with glitter in it, and that's what we use, and that's why it feels so nice on the skin, but also why it could be a little bit trickier to take off, which is good. So then it's also not fucking off as much, exactly.
Andrea Enright 6:21
And if you ever come to the goddess temple for a Braveheart conversation, you get to be part of the glitter ritual.
Janelle Orion 6:29
Yes. So, so those are, that's our glitter in real life story,
Andrea Enright 6:32
yes. Now we're gonna move on to our brave heart conversation recap. Okay,
Janelle Orion 6:40
so what we're doing today is we are continuing as a second one of our Braveheart question and answers, or what's your acronym for the day? Oh, they're
Andrea Enright 6:51
i and they're not question and answers, because we don't have the answers. We're calling them I and I. It's an inquiry and an insight.
Janelle Orion 6:58
Oh my gosh, I love it. And so just as a reminder for our brave hearts who are don't remember what a brave heart conversation is, or maybe not, doesn't know is that these are in real life events that you and I have been doing a couple times a month, and we are inviting people to ask us questions on the topics that we cover in the podcast, right? Because we talk about taboo topics regarding life, intimacy, relationships, and while these brave heart conversations are not recorded, it's an opportunity for us to for you and I to actually be vulnerable, and then talk to other brave hearts who are being vulnerable, who are asking anonymous questions, and then we're giving our insight to the questions, and then we're opening it up so that everyone, because it could cross pollination, and everyone gets to answer, you know, like whatever the question was or whoever. And
Andrea Enright 7:52
the result is that you get held in this space. We get to meet you in person, and you feel less alone in these topics that you're navigating. So we like to do today is just like, pull a few inquiries from our different Brave Heart conversations and present them to you with our insights, yes, and one of
Janelle Orion 8:10
the things too is that we do do the Braveheart conversations. We do women only ones, and we do men only ones. And of course, Andrea and I identify as women, but there is something special about having men talk about their relationships, and then we're also offering insight. There's some I don't know. It just felt like, like we were sisters, holding space.
Andrea Enright 8:33
Yes, what it felt like? Right, right? Yeah. There was, it was fascinating to watch that all male one. So if you want to learn more about Braveheart conversations, go to permission to be human. Dot live. Go to our events page, and you can sign up. We've
Janelle Orion 8:46
got one coming up, actually, August 15, for women in Denver. Okay,
Andrea Enright 8:52
so let's get to the first inquiry. Here's what this person said. So what if my partner has less experience than I do, and they see sex that they have with me as transcendental and the most beautiful thing they've ever experienced, and yet my own experience is just normal sex with them. Do I share this with them? If so, how? Especially because my partner struggles quite a bit, but is growing, and I don't want to stunt my partner's growth.
Janelle Orion 9:27
Okay, beautiful question the for, and the first thing that I'm even hearing in that right, is that there is, like, care and consideration and like, Oh, here's a topic here I want to talk about, but I don't know how to talk about it, but I really want to be received, right? Because I don't, I don't want it's and as we know, hurt if we're in the dating world, we're dating, actually not if we're not even in the dating world, if we're in the relating world for relating, relating to anybody, yeah, then hurt is possible. People, right? We're either hurting them or we're hurting ourselves. Both are true and so not. The thing that I hear is, oh, we can't be afraid of hurting someone or disappointing or disappointing to the degree that we disappoint or hurt ourselves, because then no one wins in that situation.
Andrea Enright 10:22
Yeah, that's what was, I think, the biggest thing to come out of that. And, you know, I think a couple different questions came up, okay, do you need to share at all? Like it is hard, incredibly hard to hear these difficult things. And you just do have to ask, is that omission a betrayal? Or do you feel out of integrity by not mentioning it or not? Like, just make sure that you're asking yourself that question.
Janelle Orion 10:53
Yes, I loved that. And we also, as a group, discuss like, is this something that like, they still really loved this person, loved having sex with them. And so it was more that, or what I'm reading in this question is simply that, like, is the comment useful? Because if someone's like, oh, well, is there something right? If I was a woman receiving this and I could hear it without, like, hear the question of, like, oh, there's maybe other things that my partner likes to do in sex that I haven't even thought about. What if we experiment? What if we try more? Like, I could bring if I was the partner in this receiving this information, be curious about it, because sex is not a finite thing, right, right? There's, there's room for expansion and for growth and for new pleasure and for new desires all of the time, if we don't put it in a box, right? Like, and so in this way, it's like, oh, this is an opportunity for, like, she could receive this a big Oh, with curiosity, like, what else is there I see?
Andrea Enright 11:58
So, so, yeah, this is where, yeah, it's almost limiting. If this, this person had said, Oh, well, you know, I just the sex is good, but it's not amazing, and then that would be like, Oh, well, great. Maybe we should try something new. Is that what you're suggesting that
Janelle Orion 12:14
would be one way she could, potentially, she or he could respond right to this. And I guess what I'm trying to say is that if it's a fixed thing that can't be changed, for example, height, right? The thing that you're like, Oh, this is just okay, because it's like, your height is a factor, well, that can't be changed. Like, maybe that's not useful. But if it's like, oh, I'm looking for something like more subtle or more intense, or whatever, like, that's all learnable, changeable,
Andrea Enright 12:48
yeah. Okay, so, great point. And then the other couple things that come to mind is balance is an illusion in any case, right? Like, there are periods and phases of my life with different lovers or partners where, wow, I'm really enjoying the sex like to a crazy degree, and they like it, but it's like, okay for them, right? And then there's gonna be a time when I'm like, kind of meh, and they're like, in the stars and so, and I think my mom telling me a long time ago, like, you know, someone's always gonna love more, not permanently, but temporarily,
Janelle Orion 13:25
right? Like there's a flow that two people are not always in the flow, the exact same place, the exact same intensity, the exact same moment in every moment,
Andrea Enright 13:35
yes, I'm hearing Yes. And so it's temporary. And so let's just acknowledge that too, balance is an illusion. The
Janelle Orion 13:42
other thing, though, what I'm also recognizing it with this question, we talked about it as a group was, but okay, even if you, you're, you're great, I'm gonna say something which is, with what the person decides to do, then how to do it? Well, yeah,
Andrea Enright 13:58
right. Things on this, right? Here's
Janelle Orion 14:00
a hard conversation, yep, right. And how do you do that? Well, what were your thoughts? Yeah,
Andrea Enright 14:07
one is to make sure that you have a container, or you have rules about what you share in an open relationship or in any relationship, and you should set that up as soon as possible, right? How much do they want to know? Do they want it in an email, or do they want it face to face? Do they want it in the morning, or do they want it in the evening? Like, set it up and like, honor, set up the conversation. Set up the conversation times, set up the conversation structure and honor that and revisit it every 30 days. Like, literally, this is what I wish I would have done in Nepali in the beginning, because what we did was, oh, oh, by the way, this is happening. I'm like, I'm not in the mood to receive this. I can't receive this. I'm too stressed. It's better at night. Oh, we just talked about this, like, so this is just about any conversation, right? Like. But I know that for me, my nervous system needs some specific conditions to receive something the best in the best way I can. And so having that container and those rules and that structure is just kind of a baseline for having any potentially difficult conversation. Yeah, I think that's the beginning. Great. I
Janelle Orion 15:21
totally agree with that. And then the other thing that I would add to that is having the difficult conversation from an open hearted place. And so if there's something that you want to be different, then can you get to the place where you are grounded enough to own that this is your desire, that this is your truth, this is your boundary, potentially, and but that you are expressing it to someone that you love, and it might be difficult for them to hear so in the face of them potentially being hurt, can you stay open with your heart? And there are like, structures, like, there's, like, this Janelle sandwich example, I love the sandwich. You're so good. You're like, giving a here's affirmation, and then, oh, here's a thing that could be better. And ending it with affirmation,
Andrea Enright 16:22
yep. So starting with a positive and you're ending with a positive. And what I hear in that too, that came up is we are potentially in this situation, making a request, and we may not be, but remember that anything you want is a request. It's not a demand. Okay, do you want to do the next inquiry? Yes,
Janelle Orion 16:43
how does someone release the conditional role of caregiver and be okay with self joy as the primary goal?
Andrea Enright 16:54
It's so simple, but pretty profound,
Janelle Orion 16:57
I'd love to start or sure, because caregiver is the role like when I took my BDSM course and learned that caregiving is the way that the mother archetype shows love and that other archetypes show love in different ways. And that was profound for me, because I had thought that caregiving was the only way to show love like that, those two things were synonymous, and that to know that, oh, actually, there's other ways to show love. I didn't have to be loyal to caregiving. I had to be loyal to love.
Andrea Enright 17:44
And so caregiving is just one form
Janelle Orion 17:48
of love, yes. And what I learned is that while caregiving is an appropriate way to show love between a parent and a child, right, or if your partner is sick or is you know, needs help, that caregiving is not the appropriate way to show love between lovers on a daily basis, because it collapses polarity, because it brings in this mother parent, yeah, this mother archetype, this parent archetype, so Working towards taking care of yourself, yeah, your own emotions, and trusting that you can speak your desires and your boundaries, and moving towards trusting that your partner can take care of themselves and their emotions and speaking their desires and their boundaries, yeah, will move You from a place of caretaking to a place of self joy, and for those of us who caregiving has been our natural conditioned state to relate not only to children but also to lovers, then How to get to the place of not doing that. It's just a practice, practice, leading with, Oh, these are my desires, and I'm gonna trust that you can take care of yourself even though your desires are different. It can be very uncomfortable. Can be very uncomfortable, but it's practice. This
Andrea Enright 19:23
one keeps coming up for me too, is trusting the other person's boundaries. Because I think if, if that other person is not versed in this, or they're not good with their boundaries, then basically what they see in you is, well, you're just being selfish. You're not giving to me anymore, just giving to yourself. Yeah, like, no, no, you have to get you. You have to give to yourself, yes, this is so hard,
Janelle Orion 19:43
right practice for both sides. Yeah, okay, the next inquiry, yeah.
Andrea Enright 19:49
So my partner and I have sexually honest talks about our relationship. We agreed. That we will enjoy each other as long as we feel called to each other, and that we're together for a reason and a season.
I love that, right? How great is that
I'm like, okay, that's poetry. Our Love feels imbalanced, however she is effusive in her love more than I am, and she would like me to be very involved with her children. I wish we were a little more casual, but I do enjoy our connection. Do I need or do I owe it to her to recalibrate her expectations and or be involved with her children. Mm, hmm. It's a great question that has so much bigger meaning than even just the kids. Oh, right. Is Like, does it have it's right back to balance, right?
Janelle Orion 20:53
Does it have to be the same all the time, right? And I think right, the quote here was, like, you know, she's more effusive than I am. I think that's probably true for lots of relationships where one person is more effusive than the other, yep. So that's just like a that just is what it is. And so to me, that's an accepting of the what is and accepting of each of our own styles of expressing, yeah, right, like someone else might show love through, you know, back to like the five love languages, like acts of service, sure versus words of affirmation. So there's different ways we just talked about in this last question about there's different ways to show love, caretaking being one way and for certain contexts, but expression can be different between people
being really clear with the partner about what you're available for, and holding that right. So in this case, are you available for? Like, hey, I'm happy to meet your kids, but I'm not, and I'm happy to, like, hang out with them, on occasion, all of us together, but I'm not going to be take on a parental role. And then from that place of clarity, the partner gets to choose, okay, is that's what I'm looking for exactly, or do I actually want someone who is going to be a have more of a parental role, and then she gets to say, You know what, I love you. And this isn't what I want, right? So this is really a gift to her, Yes, right? Instead
Andrea Enright 22:31
of her being like, Well, I'm sure he's just gonna, like, get involved next month, you know, just a little bit longer, and then, like, they're gonna get close enough when he never even had this intention, right?
Janelle Orion 22:40
And I do think, and I remember talking to another friend who was like, I've been telling them what I'm available for. And I do think, speaking as a woman, that women can often hear what they want to hear, so true and not hear they don't want to hear. So that is men
Andrea Enright 22:56
too, by the way. That's not just a woman thing, like we're listening and we shift things to be what we want to hear, right?
Janelle Orion 23:05
So there has to be an owning that like you can only be as clear as you can be, and that how it is received is not actually your responsibility, but if you're standing in your truth you I mean, like to be as clear as you can be and as kind as you can be, of course, yes, yes. But the other piece that came up for me with this question is if, like when I think about my own life, right, like in my relationship, where my ex husband owned a boundary that was really hard for me, right, regarding our sexual intimacy. But what I also acknowledge is that because he held his truth and his boundary, I ultimately, and it was painful for me, came to my truth and where my boundaries were, and so to your point, like that was a gift, is that I really honor the fact that most men would not have, in the face of my tears and upsetness, been able to hold the boundary that he held, and because he did, we both have greater freedom. I feel
Andrea Enright 24:14
the hurt right now like that is so true, and I think it is. It's really it's hard,
Janelle Orion 24:21
it's hard, but I think all of us benefit when we can stand in our truth with kindness and an open heart. Because if we can do that, then you're actually giving someone else strength to do it for themselves, even if they don't know it or want it in that moment,
Andrea Enright 24:40
yeah, oh, I got really fucking hard. I just want to throw one more thing into that, because I know we've already talked a lot about imbalance and how that's okay. And what occurred to me the other day as I was looking at something that was imbalanced, was, Oh, if I just step back and say, Oh, I'm. Gonna stop judging that right now. Like, why I'm just judging and saying, oh, but it should be perfect. It should be just right, you know, it should be like, Oh, we should both be at this exact level. And that's just like, not most of the time. How it works for anything in life I know, for anything, for work and play, for love between two people, for, you know, relationship or whatever, and just stop judging it, and just wait, wait and watch, because things, even if you wanted to hold on to them, even if they were perfect, you can't. Everything's constantly changing. And this is interesting. I feel like I talk about this my clients all the time, where it never gets old. It's this idea of, I mean, no, you've told you told me so much. Oh, yep, there's impermanence. Oh, there's impermanence. We think we don't want things to change. Of course, a lot of times we don't. I don't want my child to get a little older. My God, I don't want to die, but I also don't want to be hot and miserable sitting in the car in 95 degrees
in traffic. I want that to end right, right? With an broken air conditioner.
I don't want cancer to keep going. Want to end. There are things we want to stop and there are things we don't want to stop, and so just acknowledging both of them, and
Janelle Orion 26:16
then some things we can't change, right? But, and the other thing I want to say on this is that if you don't speak your truth, yeah, and you are not clear with what you're really available for, and you end up hanging out with the kids and you don't really want to Be I feel strongly that that will still be conveyed,
Andrea Enright 26:42
yeah, energetically, energetically,
Janelle Orion 26:44
right. And so that's then sloppy energy, sloppy boundaries, sloppy and no one, no one benefits. So even though it can be hard to set the boundary, not setting the boundary, my opinion is
Andrea Enright 26:59
worse. Okay, great. Let's do the next question. Okay? I'm gonna read it Sure.
Janelle Orion 27:07
Is it okay for me to live in my full self expression, in the way that I want to have sex, the one the way that I want to be in a relationship with children, even though my cultural and family conditioning says what I want is bad,
Andrea Enright 27:27
yeah. So I think I'm hearing like this person is thinking, Oh, these things are at odds, because my cultural conditioning says, Well, you can't really want to have sex and also be a good dad and be a good husband at the same time? Yes, and I
Janelle Orion 27:42
think in reading this, I think like that there's also like, oh, I want kinky sex, or I want to be in an open relationship, right? The taboo is actually in not just sex, it's that there are other desires that we were not culturally raised to think were okay, yeah,
Andrea Enright 28:02
absolutely. And of course, our insight is, yes, it's all okay. It can all live together. And this is, I mean, Polly is often like the model for Polly is that, oh, one person can't give me everything, and so I maybe am gonna go dancing with this person, and I'm gonna have children with this person, and I might get my deep conversations from yet friends and then another partner I'm gonna have amazing sex with. And this you build a village around you. I mean, I think Hillary Clinton said, doesn't she say, yeah, it does take a village. It takes a village for a lot of things. And I know this is just a sort of a metaphor for this example, but in general, I'm always trying to help people say, Oh, things don't have to live in containers, right? We don't have to commit to a container and be like, well, this is what I chose a long time ago. This is what I have to be. I can't mix it up. Humans are complex, right? The same person who decided to be an accountant and has a collection of vinyls and lives in a Victorian house when she was 32 at 51 might decide that she wants to be a DJ and move to Austin and realizes that she's a lesbian, like, like, you can mix things together all the time, like the mundane is always hanging out with the magic, and that's, that's just how it works and so, but I think it is so fascinating that this question came up. So, like, Wait, can I be all these things at the same time? And it's just such a huge resounding YES for me, yeah. Like it's
Janelle Orion 29:41
THE FUCK YES of if this is the truth of you, and that the truth of you is coming from from a heart centered place with kindness and consent, right, right? Then fuck yes, it's okay, yeah, even if you've been told it's not to and in fact, that's the definition of a brave heart. You. Exactly
Andrea Enright 30:00
get being brave enough to confront your fears about breaking societal norms. Next inquiry,
Janelle Orion 30:09
yes, balance has really been what was one of themes last couple of questions, it's fascinating.
Andrea Enright 30:15
So how do I create the balance between my heart needs, love, sex, exploration, connection and a purposeful life on a mission. So this is a little bit different, right? This is like, how do I make sure I'm filling my cup and remaining inspired on my path and fulfill the needs in a in a relationship with someone else? Then the desires, I would say, yeah, right, right. Good point. And I think this comes back, like,
Janelle Orion 30:44
we've said balance a lot, that there is no balance, right? You're constantly spending more time on this or on that, right? Like, you're not all, like, a like, none of us are having sex. 24/7, right, even if you think we want you not actually possible. So, like, there's time for sex, then there's time for eating, and then there's time for work, and then, like, so there's, in any given moment, there's probably just one or a couple of things happening, and they're different spots,
Andrea Enright 31:11
yeah. And I think your example of, like, the way that you live your life, like, because I'm always watching and being like, how is she doing that? How is she doing that? Like, you know, but you, I've heard you say and explain as you fly off to Philly, and you're having meetings, and then you go see your dad, and then you're going on a date in New York City, and then you're seeing friends in Carolina, like, and you're doing so many things in this tight, you know, maybe five day container. But what I also hear is that you're constantly being present for each one of those. You can totally make the transition, yes,
Janelle Orion 31:48
right? If I'm with my dad, then I'm with my dad, and when I am doing whatever it is I am doing, and I can just hold that as then that's what I'm supposed to be doing, yeah? Then I feel so much lighter. And so I have allowed, like, spaciousness allows for me to, even though it sounds like I'm doing a lot of things, it's like, oh, but this is the thing that's feels alive in this moment, yeah. And I also recognize right for people know, like, you know, I don't, I don't live a structured life. I don't have children, I don't have predictability in my schedule, which, which does work for me. But another way to describe it is that it's immersive, right? The Presence is also immersive, which is that, you know, like, I can go see a lover for a weekend, and then I get to be like, I'm in my like, lover sex mode for a weekend, and then I come to see my dad, and they're like, I'm in my dad child role for a couple of days. And then I come back to the goddess temple, and I'm in my nourishing, resting, hanging out with you. See you. So then I'm in that for five days. And so it's not that in my situation that I'm having sex in every moment, and I'm not caretaking my dad, and every moment it's like, oh, but I'm doing it for intensive periods of time, blocks of time. I
Andrea Enright 33:08
think there's something that, I guess I'm playing devil's advocate here, that someone says, Well, so you just go and visit your dad, and then you don't think about your dad any other time. And I'm sure that's not true. You know, your dad's on your mind maybe when you come home or when you're doing different things. And so I just feel like it's important to say that breaking these things up just allows you to be present for whomever you're with at the time. It's like you forget about them when you leave. I mean, like I talk to
Janelle Orion 33:39
my dad almost every day. So it's there is I'll say this. This is probably more surprising is that I actually don't miss the goddess temple when I'm not here, because I'm like, said this before, because I'm like, Oh, I'm home wherever I am. So I'm like, Oh, I'm in a hotel room in New York. That's my home in this moment, because that's where I'm at and with my dad. It's not that, yeah, it's not that I don't, like, Forget about him, but it's like, oh, I'm home with him in this moment when I'm there with him, and then it's like, oh no, now I'm home with the goddess temple and oh, I'm just making a phone call. It's a different like,
Andrea Enright 34:14
yeah. It's different energy. There's
Janelle Orion 34:17
Yeah, yeah. I
Andrea Enright 34:18
think it's really fascinating. So just a quick contrast is that like this, this would never work for me, or, I mean, not never, but it does not work for me right now, like in my life is much more structured, and also just my nervous system isn't quite as good at transitioning that quickly. So when I'm apart from my home, my family, I'm present there, but then I do miss like, I'm like, No, I need to go back home now, right? And I need to go be in that energy for a while. And, you know? And I still feel at home in myself. But still, there are some things that you know, that normal, that I sort of am attracted to and like, why I'm choosing to live. Where I live, but I need more time between, yeah,
Janelle Orion 35:02
which is, that's all that is, is great noticing, like, I don't think that my way is by any such a better way. No, I
Andrea Enright 35:08
think you're saying, find your way. Like, yeah. Like, find what works for you. Like, it's and maybe you need two hours of transitioning. Maybe you need two days. Like, I just, I know that I need that. In fact, I used to say when I would drive back to my parents in the Midwest, like, and I used to drive, make that drive a ton, and it's like, 13 hours. And I was like, oh, I need all this time, like, in the car, 13 hours in the car, 13 hours in the car. Like, transition back. I'm like, I need this time to, like, shift back to this different role. And it really was helpful. And then when I would return, I needed that time too to, like, shift away from the home kind of daughter role and go back to, you know, being a wife and a friend and, yeah, a girlfriend and mother. So that's
Janelle Orion 35:51
actually how I feel about flights, right? I actually used to think that I really wanted teleportation, but then yes, and then they go, actually, this is for sure, that time thing, the other thing I want to say is that just back to the question, is that I actually feel there's a relationship between this, oh yeah, the heart piece And the purpose piece in that I believe love, sex, connection, relationship, when that's getting fed, then it can, like, help recharge the person to go out and then be okay. Now I'm on purpose, and now I'm on mission, and now I'm doing all those things, whatever that is like, going to work, having the meetings, creating the vision, putting all that energy out, and then at the end of that day, that week, whatever it is, it's like, I'm ready to be right. Like, I need to recharge again, and then you go back and get recharged. So like, they actually, I feel like, weave together in this beautiful way that's actually essential to being able to be fully expressed. If our heart and sex and spirit are not connected and activated, then our purpose is gonna not be blossom as much as it could.
Andrea Enright 37:15
Okay? I think it depends on your situation. I think that is true. But I guess I don't want to put into pressure on people to be like, well, you have to, like, somehow be sexually active, to like, support your purpose,
Janelle Orion 37:28
no? And I don't think so. And so, thank you for pointing that out. I think it's like the erotic energy, which does not necessarily mean sexual but it's like the life force energy. It's the creative energy. Yeah, it's like, how are you get nourished, right?
Andrea Enright 37:41
Right at an energetic level? Yeah, yeah. And I think it's important the people that you bring into your life, right? If you're not feeling like you can get replenished and nourished, and then go back if there's any kind of bitterness or resentment about the time you're spending on your life, purpose and mission, mission from other people in your life. I mean, that's something to look at, yeah, and see if you know if that influences is good or not, yeah. Okay, well, I think it's the last question. Okay, what do we got here? All right,
Janelle Orion 38:11
I've got it here. So how do I present the possibility of non monogamy with a long term partner who is not ready, they are intimidated and scared by the idea of something other than the monogamy we've been practicing for a long time. And how to even entertain the idea, or present the idea, if you're the only one who's curious about it,
Andrea Enright 38:37
and talk about that, maybe just talk about the
Janelle Orion 38:40
skills, the skills, yeah, this, for me, tactics. The book that I highly recommend is Tristan to amino. Is opening up by Tristan ter amino, and this is the book that I first started reading with. And one of the like, the key parts of this is you go as fast as the slowest person. That's right. I remember that, yeah, and but it also, the book itself is just a great resource, so I recommend that. And she gives some thoughts on how to approach this, right, like, are there other resources and tools that you need? Do you want a therapist while you're having this conversation or while you're opening the door to this. Do you read books together first? Which is what you know, my ex husband and I did, we read, I don't know how many books before we actually did anything right? And it was reading the books that I got to see myself in, like, oh, there's a truth for me in this. Or is it listening to podcasts? But back to our the first question that we had on, that we talked about is, how do you present it also again, like this open hearted thing, like, Oh, this is my truth. I love this relationship, and I want us to continue, and I want us to grow. And there's a part of me that needs something else. And standing in the truth of that is hard for me, because I'm afraid to disappoint you, and yet I can't disappoint myself, and I would be if I didn't even mention it. Yep,
Andrea Enright 40:10
that's it. It's not easy conversations, no doubt about it, but they're worth having little bit at a time. Yeah, it's a struggle. Like, I just remember the It's funny though, I will say about if someone is is looking to change their relationship from monogamy to non monogamy, let's say in the beginning, it can be like, Oh, this is exciting. This is interesting. Because I have to say, in the beginning for us, I just, like, both people were curious about it, true, curious, but only one was active, right? And yes, both people were curious. But I would say even if, if someone is not sure, and the other one's like, Okay, I want to try this. And the other one's like, I don't know, but like, All right, we can try it. Like, basically what happens is that linearly, we might be on board, or we might think, Okay, I see, I see why. This makes sense, but the body does have a hard time catching up with the head. Mm hmm. It was my consistent experience. And so I would agree to something even because I started this a long time ago, right? And then, and then, when my husband started it, I was like, Oh, my God, this is fucking hard, like, right? But you'd already been doing it for years. Yeah, you were the active one for years, exactly, just a couple. But, yeah, and so I, I think, just expect that this is a mo, a long process of like you might agree to something in the beginning and get it, and then you have to like kind of you. I'm gonna say that your mind, your heart, your gut and your sex each have their own pace at catching up with what's going on. Yes, yes. I'll just leave it. Leave it there.
Janelle Orion 42:00
I also want to bring in what one of the other people said, right? I mean, then we're kind of collating the voice all of us in these conversations. This is not just like what you and I responded to with, yeah, these are not just our insights true, yeah, because she had a lot of things to say about this too, yeah, but that one person said, you know, in the conversation, like you could blow it up the relationship, you can either blow it up now or it can blow it up later. And I think that the insight from that particular person was, if it's your truth, then it's going to happen. It's going to come out if you don't mention it or not, right? And even if, obviously, I think, in this particular question, the goal is not to blow it up, because the relationship is really beautiful in lots of ways. So that's not the goal. But if the truth is that there's something that is not a need that's not being met, and in this case, we're talking about opening the relationship, but it could be anything, right? Yeah, it could be. It could be that, like you're the breadwinner and your partner's not working, and you want them to be working,
Andrea Enright 43:08
yes, thinking the same thing, like just changing the format of your house, right? Yeah,
Janelle Orion 43:12
right, that if there's something that that's not working, that ultimately, and I remember we used to say this in a relationship, like, the resentment will build. And when resentment builds because you haven't said anything, then that is very noticeable. It's
Andrea Enright 43:29
going to come out energetically, just like you said about the kids. Yeah. So, okay, that's our those are a brave heart conversation recap, inquiries and insights. If you have any inquiries as a Braveheart, if you want to be a Braveheart, if you're already a Braveheart, please reach out. Look at our website. Permission to be human. Dot live to check out the events, and we'd love to see you in real life soon.
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Janelle Orion 44:02
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