Andrea interviews Janelle on what happened when her own sex drive didn’t mirror her husbands, including how she navigated the hurt, the right approach, concrete tools for conversation and inspiration to be brave. You can do it and this will help! Includes a nod to ISTA retreat and Betty Martin’s book, “The Art of Giving & Receiving”. You’ll hear:
--How to tap into your body (not your mind) to see what you REALLY want
--Why the first step is deciding what sex and intimacy means to you
--How to reexamine your idea of marriage
--A complete reframe of the term “boundaries”
--Why the result of genuine connections is worth the awkwardness
TRANSCRIPT:
Andrea Enright 0:01
Struggling to discuss sex and intimacy with your partner, not feeling met, seen or heard in your relationships. I'm Janelle And I'm Andrea. We're two midlife Mavericks sharing our own experiences, messy AF and no regrets with marriage, divorce, polyamory and pleasure. We've learned that when you're brave enough to figure out what you want and ask for it, with partners, friends, family and most importantly, yourself, you'll feel more alive and free question everything, especially your mother's advice. There's no rom com formula for this. But don't panic. Being alone matters, honey, I can't miss you if you don't leave, what if your breakup could be your breakthrough? Our podcast is for brave hearts. Anyone who seeks or has found the courage to confront their fears and limiting beliefs about breaking societal norms in the spirit of finding their truth. If you're seeking permission to be brave in your relationships and want to feel less alone along the way, we got you. Please note, this is our side of the story. Our partners and metamours have their own individual experiences, and we do not speak for them.
Hi, Andrea, hi, Janelle, welcome to permission to be human. Y'all Yeah, season three, we're so excited to be here. Yes, we've taken a little break. We have spent a lot of time actually thinking, reflecting, strategizing, evaluating what this season was all about, and as we've evolved over the past two years, 75 episodes, we've realized that the most common themes across the permission to be human is learning to be brave in relationships. Yeah, and we think we know what we want, because across our brave heart conversations that have happened in real life, we have discovered a lot of fascinating and common questions among brave hearts. And so we've decided that season three is going to be all about going deep into these questions, and that means every three months, we'll ask one question across 12 episodes. We will interview each other, we'll interview experts, and we will interview bravehearts so that we can be brave in relationships together, one crisis, one celebration, one late night conversation at a time. And this format is inspired by our Braveheart coaching model. We want to bring the permission and the depth that we bring to individuals to everyone. So the first question we'll cover is, ready?
Janelle Orion 2:48
Drum roll please.
Andrea Enright 2:52
How do I talk to my partner about sex and intimacy that came up so much? Yes, let's dive in. So I am interviewing Janelle first, and here we go. So Janelle, tell me about your journey with this, this conundrum with the question, yes. Okay, so just as a recap, everyone I was married, I'm divorced now, but when my husband and I first got together almost 10 years ago, it was the best sex in my life. And we started out monogamous. We switched to non monogamous and polyamorous along the way, but our sex life also started to shift, and ultimately, I wanted more sex than he did, and that was hard. Yep, I think we can relate to that, right, right, brave hearts. So let's just, let's first ask, how do you define sex here? So back, way back when in my life, right? I used to think of sex as, like, penetration, P and the V high school term, right? It was orgasm focused. And one of the gifts of becoming polyamorous was that we learned a lot about communication. What it was one of the gifts of that of that, of like learning about our own desires and learning how to communicate them, and our communication and our around our sex life wasn't always an ease, but we were always working on it, and we had a couples therapist thinking that we were setting ourselves up for success, right? Because we we yeah, we knew that polyamory was like an edge and hard, and neither one of us had done it before, right? So we wanted the support to help us navigate that. And so that was some of the things we had in place to help us. And so, but you define the sex as penetration, and it sounds like that, that definition may have changed. A little bit, but we'll come back to that. So I want to go back to the story. So like, when then did things change? Like, if you know, you were having the best sex of your life, and then you became polyamorous, and you were it was still great, and you were having sex with other people. And then what happened as soon as we got married, literally on our honeymoon. Things changed when it was like, day or three or four and we had not had sex yet. I finally asked him about it and the shame of going on our honeymoon, on our honeymoon and not having sex like was worse than like, how we overcome the fear of actually asking him about sex, right? I asked him, and we had sex, and how was it? It was okay, right? I mean, it was fine. But I what I remember now in my heart more was the like, oh, we weren't having it and hadn't had we got there? I also want to say like, even like, part of the journey of a brave heart, right, is really going inward. And if I'm really honest with myself, right, I say like, oh, it started right on our honeymoon, but really, truly, it started prior to that. Like that, I recognized we had a difference in our sex life, but I was under the impression that, like, we would fix it, or it would change, or it would evolve, or it's not that big of a deal, but like, the signs were there. I just didn't want to look at the signs like I wanted to get married to this most this, like, really incredible man. Oh my gosh, so much to ask about there so, and I think it's, it's fair to say like, or it's reasonable to say that, okay, so the sex was like, missing or you had different sex drives, it sounds like, right? But everything else was really great. You got along, and you had overlapping interests, and you loved each other, and there was so many thing, other things that were good. So I can see it up being like, All right, well, like, things, things might change. But I also want to go back to, really, the root of what we're asking about today is, how do I talk to my partner about sex and intimacy? And on your honeymoon, you summoned the courage to be like, hey, like, we haven't had sex yet, so, I mean, you did it there. Can I just dig a little bit deeper into, like, how you managed to say that? I don't, I don't even know if I would have been able to, like, I know what you mean about the shame of the honeymoon without sex, but you know that's, yeah, that's big, yeah, I would say that the shame, shame of not having sex on that anyway, was a big one for me, like a big motivator, also deeply confusing. And like, what's going on here, you know? And again, like, we didn't decide what. We didn't have any tools, you know, we had some tools, and I and I knew enough about myself. I mean, we've been dating at that point for five years, right to ended in polynomials, for many of those to be like, Okay, I have to speak what's true for me. And like, the culmination and the result of it was like, I didn't force him to have sex with me, like he chose to have sex with he wanted to have sex with me, even though there was other things going on. Yeah, right, but it's, you know, it wasn't like a forced hand, but I was, I was the one who was initiating. And did you usually initiate? In the past, I would say, yes, I what I would say is, because it was my I was the one who had more of a sex drive. And I also want to say now, in hindsight, I mean, brave hearts also, like, you know, this is a conversation, like, a vulnerable conversation that Andrew and I are having in real life right now, right? And what as I'm like, you know, we have some points that we're talking about, but like, there's, there's parts of myself that I'm just like, remembering and revealing in real time. And I had this idea of, like, what my sex life was supposed to look like, how often we were supposed to have sex, how, like, what orgasm was supposed to be like. I just had this idea of what it was supposed to be like, very much of the mind, very much of the culture. And so I was the one who was initiating. But in a way, I don't know that my husband didn't have a high sex drive. I just don't think that the way I was, like wanting it in the way that I did, was a turn on for him. Oh, there's so much there too. So I mean, I'm hearing you say, mind culture, expectation, supposed to look a certain way, and you were pretty focused on that. You're like, Oops, something's off here. It doesn't look like it's supposed to look and how was it supposed to look like? Where did you get that idea like? What? Big question, whether it's movies, rom coms, TV, other friends, people describing their sex lives with their part. Partners. I mean, probably all like books, right? But, and you thought, no, that's what mine should look like, too, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, at least like sex a couple times a week, right? And Right, right? And when you have sex, there should be orgasms and and then also, like, what were my desires, right? Oh, I did. There were things that, you know, I definitely had. I had natural desires for sex, but along the way, what we figured out too is that we had different definitions of sex and intimacy. We had different definitions you and your husband had different definitions of sex and intimacy, and how were those different? So I actually strongly associated sex to intimacy, like I like, felt like we were closer when we had sex, and turns out, my husband didn't, so I wanted his love and intimacy to be expressed physically during sex. And for him, intimacy came in other ways, other forms, yeah, and he thought we were being intimate all the time, right? We were doing everything together. He was the person he spoke to most. You know, he spent most of his time with me. We were living life together. We were living together. We were starting businesses together. We were traveling together. We were like, having big conversations about family and about money and and like, values and life and dreams. And he was like, we're so intimate. And so this is fascinating to you, because I so much of what I read about sex, or is in pop culture about sex, is it? Well, you know, intimacy starts outside the bedroom, right? Like, you have to, like, be intimate in your normal life, and that is going to fuel your sex life. But you're saying that was working. That was working well, you were connecting right outside of the bedroom. We were, we were in deep conversations a lot. Another thing about polyamory, right? There's a joke that that you end up processing a lot. You actually don't have sex very much, because you're processing so much the truth to that we were learning about ourselves and learning about each other and learning about our desires. He and I met on OKCupid, and that's algorithm based. And when we met, we had a 97% compatibility. So I remember a conversation that he and I had, and he was like, this is like, our one area that we're not like, the compatibility is off. It's like, just 3% like, why do we have to spend so much time focusing on this 3% when we there's 97% that's compatible.
So fair enough. But I think it sounds like it was a challenge, and part of your resolution was like, how do you define sex? How do you define intimacy? And defining that for each of you, maybe on your own and then coming together to discuss it, is that what happened? Yep, that is what happened. And also even understanding that, oh, I he works better in definitions, I work better in examples, right? So it was like, Okay, here's an example where I felt really intimate. Here's an example where I felt like, this is what sex meant to me, right? But I will say, I, you know, I spent a couple of years trying to come to terms with just saying, Oh, okay. Like, it's okay that this 3% like that our sex life is just in this 3% category, and so it isn't that important. So something you ask yourself, you're like, Well, maybe it's okay. Maybe we don't have to have sex, right? So even if we had a different definition of it, like, so here's, you know, here's his definition, here's my definition. But then also, then, how important is it? Yeah, exactly. And I also hear too, I think it's important to bring up that, something I think I've learned from you, even though I know it deep down, is that there is no right and wrong way to think about sex and intimacy, like correct, like the way that he was thinking about it is his way, based on his personality and his cultural conditioning and his experience and his desires and his desires, right? And someone else might think of it very differently, and that's okay. Like, there is no like, I think I used to think, Well, yeah, but like, this is like, the right way, right? Like, this is these other things are, like, off in the too different, and then telling brave hearts out there and like, No, it doesn't like. I used to say as like, as long as there's kindness and consent, then however you think about sex and intimacy is fine. Mm, hmm, whatever works for you, yes, but I, but I would say that in the journey before I became like, more aware and did all the work. Worked is right, like, there was a I was definitely blaming I want it to be my way.
Janelle Orion 15:09
Oh, really, me too.
Andrea Enright 15:12
It wasn't that easy to be like, like, oh, we all have our own ways when I was like, I want, yeah, but mine's best, right? Yeah, okay, okay, so the resolution so define what sex and intimacy means and how much you want it and how much of an attraction or part of your life you want it to be, that's an important part. So, so what happened next? So after about a year of infrequent sex, he shared that he no longer desired to have sex with me. So fucking hard. Yeah, really fucking hard. It was really fucking hard to hear. And, you know, he said his desire was tied to feeling seen like he didn't feel seen by me, which interestingly is communication related. His experience was that I didn't listen. I didn't hear him. I interrupted him energetically, something felt like I was eating him, and all of those things tied to his sense of desire, got it, yeah, and it was really, it was really fucking painful, right? Because, like, I took it personally. I felt like there was something wrong with me. I felt shame in not being desirable. I shared with you and a couple of girlfriends that this was going on, but many people did not know. I mean, we gave the impression that we were very attractive couple, very progressive, polyamorous and, you know, like, had it all together. Yeah, I just want to back up for a second. I think this is I just felt something break open when you were talking about him, telling you you know that he was criticizing or saying that he didn't feel seen, he didn't feel heard, he didn't feel like you listened to him. And I think this is the fear, really, that people have, even if they don't know it, that like talking about sex and intimacy is going to lead to deeper, harder shit, and it absolutely does. We're just here to tell you that you're right. You are right, you're right, because also he felt shame in his lack of desire. It wasn't like he was like, hey, check box. This is how I'm feeling today. See, you know he was yeah, it was really hard yeah and this, but this is the thing is that yes, you're opening a box, and you're like, by talking to your partner about intimacy and sex, you are actually opening a much bigger box, but it leads to a more genuine connection or disconnection, depending, but it leads to something more honest. And I just want to emphasize that, and that it's uncomfortable as fuck, but it's definitely, it's ultimately more pure, more conscious. I agree with all of that, and you know, so we, you know, that was what he shared. But it wasn't like, okay. That means we're never having sex again. It was okay. Like, this is where we're at. It's where he was at in that moment. So we're gonna keep working on it, right? So we spent years continuing, we continued to see a therapist for a little while, and then we, like, moved on to other things, which I'll talk about, of like Tantra retreats and things like that, to try to figure out how to resolve this. And I definitely had 100% confidence that as, like two grown, mature adults, good communicators, smart like we would figure this out, right? Yeah, so let's break this down. He came to you and shared this, and how did you respond? How did you receive that information, and what granularly, what did that conversation look like? I definitely cried.
Janelle Orion 19:18
Definitely tears. Yeah, wow. And there's,
Andrea Enright 19:30
I would also say it wasn't like, in my mind, to be honest, like it's not like, it was just like one conversation, like it was like, Okay, over time and, and I'm actually now remembering it was actually with the with the guidance of our, of our talk therapist who suggested, Why don't we just take a break for a month of Janelle not initiating sex? Oh yeah. Remember that? Remember you saying, Nope, no one. Initiating. For me, I'm not initiating, yes, no, yes, exactly. So that was her suggestion to us, and we only had sex one more time after that in the following years. Wow, how, like, she gave us a container of one month, yeah, but in that way, like that was she, you know, she was like, trying to help us guide, like, the energetic piece of it. So again, having a third party, yeah, can be very useful if you're really in the trenches about this stuff. So this was her way of helping navigate energetically, that he felt like, the way he did whatever, however that wants to be described, and that I was the one who was like initiating and wanting and wanting it. So she said, how about you just, you know, take a month long break of Janelle, you stop initiating. And I will also say we didn't. We actually didn't continue going to see the therapist, you know, after that as well, we were kind of like, felt like complete and done with her simultaneously, that that was happening. Well, I just want to honor that, just that small change that you made. Like, it might not have been a positive result, but it did shift things right. Like, it like, how did it feel not to initiate like? What was that like for you not to initiate sex? It was hard. I mean, you know, back to that initial question of like, who initiated? It was me. And so to realize, Oh, I'm the one who's always initiating. And there was a part of me that felt very stifled, right, that I couldn't express. I couldn't be myself. Yeah, yeah. And you know, as I dug deeper again over time, the more I worked on this, and the more like skills I learned and the education I got in from Tantra through about pleasure and intimacy, I can say now I was that was my only way of expressing this particular flavor of energy that I had, and it's not true for me that way anymore. You're saying initiating sex was the only way to express this particular flavor of you, right? Like, because this is how I wanted to feel close to him, right? Rather, let me rephrase that. I wanted to feel close to him, and this is the way I knew to do like, this is how it felt. I could feel close to him in a long processing conversation, but actually, like, cuddled on the couch making out like, just like being juicy and warm in our embrace was much more nourishing to me. Okay, so this was your inclination, and it sounds like by having, I mean, even though it's like four years between, it took a long time you had this conversation, and I think now you would say there are different ways to feel close to express that same flavor. Is that I should ask you, do you feel now that there are different ways to express that same flavor of you? Yes, and I would say I just have learned so much about myself and like in a sense, just so much clear on what my desires are, what my boundaries are. And so the thing I want to kind of maybe come back to in this moment is I really want to give my ex husband a tremendous amount of acknowledgement and respect for having that conversation with me. Because what I now would say is that if we had continued having sex, it would have been fine, and I would have been okay with fine, because it would have fit my category of like, Oh, I'm married and released for having sex. Oh, my God, Mic drop. Just stop there. Like, if you would have kept having sex, it would have been fine, because it would have looked like it was supposed to look. Would have checked the box, yep. And so I would have been like, oh, I have nothing to complain about, right? Like, I wouldn't have gone deeper into like, what are my desires and my longings? And, yeah, in all honesty, right, this is one of the things that helped me get to that for the two of us, they come to the point of like, oh, divorce is correct for us. But this is, like, the most extreme thing. If we had been having sex a little bit, I don't know that I would have been able to come break this huge fucking bear around divorce in my mind, right? Like, but not having sex was such an extreme thing that I was able to be like, well, that doesn't feel exactly aligned, but, and so on that journey, as we're talking about, like, bringing it back to the question. How do we talk to our partners about sex and intimacy? Is he demonstrated what it's like to honor his own boundaries and his own desires in the face of my disappointment and my tears and hurting the person he loved the most in the world. Wow. Wow, wow. So we hear a lot about boundaries, and to be honest, I hear so much and in the world about someone else in the world crossing my boundaries, right? It's always in terms of the other. It's not in terms of ourselves. But I've learned this in the last few years, that and a large part, after talking to you about like, Oh no, I was crossing my own boundary again, right? Because it's a practice, right? So he was honoring his own boundaries and saying no, even though he wasn't making you happy, even though you he knew that you might be upset, even though he knew you were crying, because he was staying in alignment with himself, correct. And that was like in that moment, super painful. And then years later, I could see that was a huge gift. And where I got to was I eventually got to see where I was crossing my own boundaries. When that I was like, Oh, I actually, after contemplating and trying all different types of checking different boxes and opening my mind to what relationships could look like, and all these different things being like, set settling on the fact that I was like, Oh, I actually, I really want to have sex with my primary partner that's important to me, and so staying in the relationship when that wasn't available through no fault of anyone's Right. Like, he was like, this isn't what I desire. And I was like, Oh, and this is what I desire. Now we're just here. We are in the truth of ourselves. Now, what do we do? And so let's just lay out for the brave hearts that part of the resolution here was honoring your own boundaries. What are the reasons that someone might not honor their own boundary because you don't want to hurt the person you love, because you don't value your own boundary, like you don't think whatever it is that you want, what you desire is important, enough, legitimate enough. It could be that you don't think you deserve it. There's a whole bunch of reasons why we can cross our own boundaries and not honor them. Yeah. And so getting back to the question like, how do you talk to your partner about intimacy and sex? Is, can you go into this conversation knowing what your boundaries are and or at least acknowledging, I mean brave hearts. If you've been on this journey with us, you know how often Andrea and I would start every sentence for a long time of he said he wants, he did this right. And then we remind each other. Start with, start with, I, I want, like, can you come back to yourself? You come back to yourself? And so challenging. You did it to me yesterday, yesterday, yeah, yeah. So in talking about sex and intimacy, really it is a practice of coming back to what it is that I want, and can you stand in the discomfort of wanting what you want and speaking it yes and not blaming the other person. Blaming is a sure sign that something's a little bit off there. And yeah, yeah, I don't think I'm like, I think we're making talking about sex and intimacy with your partner sound really hard. I'm so sorry, brave hearts, you should still do it. This is how you should do it. But it's not we didn't say it's not going to be awkward. You should embrace the awkwardness. Yes, it's gonna be hard. And but I do like you know, and we've got a whole other thing to talk about here, but
it is going to be hard, but I am such a stand for or my experience has been, my pleasure has been a path towards my freedom, towards it's brought me home to myself, and so that required me learning about my own desires, my own pleasure, and then speaking those and those. That's actually a gift that happens in relationship, right? Like, you know, not that everyone has to be married, but like when you are relating to someone else and being in conversation and in relationship. Chip around this, these topics of sex and intimacy, they are a very potent way, and potent and painful, but way to the joy and freedom that I feel now. Okay, so what happened next on your journey. So I mentioned that talk therapy eventually, just like kind of we run our course with it, and along the way, we were introduced to Tantra and started going to Tantra retreats. And my husband and I at this point had not had sex in a long time, maybe, maybe more than a year. I don't exactly know, but when someone had recommended a Tantra retreat, I jumped at the chance. I was aware that there was something there for me without having actually any idea what Tantra was. What, any idea what this retreat was gonna be about sexual, right? Something sexual. And I was like, I'm a Yes, and I did think I was gonna have sex. So I was like, Okay, right? And on the very first day of this retreat, we did an exercise where we where we our mind spoke to our bodies, and our body spoke to our minds, and it was like a conversation between these two parts of ourselves. That's even confusing, I think for some like, you know, what is? What does that mean for people who've been living in their minds, like, I was definitely living in my mind for a very long time, and I didn't even, I wouldn't even know what you meant by that? Yeah, that's a great point. I didn't either. I didn't know at the time, but now what I can say is, oh, our mind has been conditioned by family, by culture, by religion, by a movie, by Disney, by culture, by our parents, by our parents and our bodies actually have a lot to say, but we're we're not taught to listen to our bodies. And I would say that's like, that is this, like, this big aha that it came to me is like, Oh, our bodies are the source of wisdom. That are it can be not always, but can be very quiet and subtle, whereas our minds can be very loud. So it can take quiet to listen to what our body to hear what our body has to say. And this was a huge turning point for me in my journey. Was that I learned actually what my body wanted, and I learned that that what it wanted was different than what my mind was telling me I should want. Yeah, yeah. I think just, you know, if you're familiar with listening to your body, it, I feel like I can tap into it. But is there, is there a practice that you know that puts you into your body on a regular basis, Janelle, or like, is there? How do you how do you flex and maintain that muscle of listening to the body when the mind is so loud, what I want to talk about is like on that same retreat, right, where we actually have the chance to practice to embody these lessons that we're learning. You know, we got to practice with other people, essentially. And there was someone I was really attracted to and felt comfortable and easy with, so he and I set up a time to practice some of these skills that we had learned, and we moved really slowly. And so when I say I moved really slowly, it was like, like, you come together, you kiss, and you had this idea of in the movies, and Oh, and there's all this energy and everything. So it was sexy, and then we're gonna and instead it was like, Nope, we're just moving like, just moving really slowly, touching ourselves really slowly. And the invitation for each other, based on the learnings that we'd gotten, was to move slowly and to keep checking in. So I asked him to just keep checking in with me to see if I was present in what during this interaction. And some people might notice that they dissociate in this situation. I didn't feel that I was dissociating, but what I found was that I was going into my head and having a conversation with myself right like, here's a person right here, but I'm actually in my head having a conversation with myself. Tell me, tell me about that conversation that he is not part of at all. Yeah, because I think I can relate. But like, what? What do you mean? Like, what conversation were you having in your head? I was just like, Oh, does he like this? Like, are we moving too slowly? Oh, like, I wonder, like, Are my toes cold? Like, what's like, Oh, my God, it's so funny. Like, yeah, just thinking about how much my mind has been in charge. Like, yes. And so what I had asked him was, like, can you just ask me a question? Like, every 10 minutes, like, no, are you here? And so at one point, he asked me that, and I was like, Oh, I'm not really, like, I'm in my head. I'm not like, fully present with you and my body and like, what's going on. And I also, what I also realized, is that what the other part of the conversation that was happening in my head was, happening in my head was, are we gonna have sex? Are we gonna have sex, right? And as we moved very slowly and we were communicating, what I heard my body say to me was, I don't want sex. What I want is eye gazing and making out, yay, yay. And I was like, oh, and like, tying back into like, the, you know, the first part of this conversation is like, how do you define sex? Define sex and intimacy. I had been defining sex as intimacy and like, that's what I wanted with my husband, but I had really, like, not taken into consideration that we were also not making out and eye gazing and being really present with one another, and that that's actually what felt way more intimate? Yeah, to me, so in this way, brave hearts. If you don't know how you define sex and intimacy, right, or you're like, it's a journey, but it'll I it took me a while to figure it all out, but at least you have the question to start with. It took me a long time to ask the question, yeah, so I'm hearing what I hear is that you're you really had to work out the different voices from your mind and from your body and how they're telling you different things. Now, does this? Does this mean that during sex? So I want to tie this back to talking to your partner about intimacy and sex, and what I'm hearing also is that like I need to figure out what my mind and my body are saying. Should people, should brave hearts do that before they talk to their partner about sex and intimacy in a perfect world, sure, but Right? It might take a really long time, yeah? So I want to set us all up for success too. So the I guess this is the important lesson of that I want bravehearts to take away from this is that just to know that the body has wisdom that's different than the mind and that it's worth listening to, okay? And some of the ways to listen to your body is alone time and moving slowly. This whole series that we're about to do is how to talk to my partner about sex and intimacy. But I don't actually believe that everything is just about being in the head, right? And so one of the things you can do as part of I want to talk about sex and intimacy with you, is, let's try things about how can we be in our bodies together, right? So that we can learn for ourselves what actually feels true and and not so. Yeah, in this way that you know, an example could be where you're just going to spend 15 minutes moving really slowly,
pausing, tuning in with yourself, and then tuning in with the other right, and at the end of those 15 minutes, have a conversation about what you just experienced. And that's still talking about sex and intimacy. And I love it. The book that I would recommend that can be also very, very useful in this realm of things. Is, and I've talked about her many times, is the art of receiving and giving. By Betty Martin. She talks about the wheel of consent. And she this book really goes into there's something called the three minute game, where you can be learning about what it is that you want, and be asking about it. And she talks about how to like, notice your body, and then trust what your body is telling you, and then devalue what your body is telling you, and then, and then communicate it. So we'll go more in depth into that particular. Concept in another episode, but it's a it's a good homework assignment. Okay, so, yeah, that's Braveheart homework. Yeah, yeah. Well, that if you want to start with a book, then that's definitely the book for Braveheart homework. But if you also just want to spend some time talking to yourself and then talking to your partner about your definition of sex and intimacy and the examples of when have you felt there's an unstated but I'm now going to state invitation to broaden your definition of what sex is, yeah, and beyond just orgasm, beyond penetration, beyond like the boxes that we've put them in. And the same thing for intimacy, when is it that you felt really connected to your partner, and the examples of those, and then set a date and sit down and talk to your partner about it, and if you're single, then also just have the conversation with yourself. Yeah, fascinating. Wow. Thank you. Thank you, friend for being so vulnerable and sharing your journey with us. I'm excited to ask you the
Janelle Orion 41:11
same questions next week, next week, it'll be me. I can't wait. Oh my god.
Andrea Enright 41:19
Okay, Bravehearts, we love you. We love you. It feels great to be back and yeah, so for the next three months, how to talk to your partner about sex and intimacy. We're diving deep, totally. It's all we're talking about. Bye, bye. Hey, brave hearts, looking for permission, work with us. We offer Brave Heart coaching. Follow us on Instagram, meet us in real life at a Braveheart conversation. Subscribe to our newsletter. Do all this and more at our website. Permission to be human. Dot live. You.