Janelle interviews Andrea on what happened when her marriage’s sex and intimacy stalled. including how she: regained her motivation, navigated different communication styles, and realized understanding herself better was the first step. There’s a nod to Emotional Release Tools (ERT) from International School of Temple Arts (I.S.T.A) and Susan Cain’s Book, “Quiet”. You’ll hear:
--Why you have to move at the speed of the slowest processor
--The problem with blaming your emotions on everybody else
--Good News! You don’t have to change.
--How Google Calendar and gymnastics practice was a hack
--Tips for creating a conversation “brave space”
--How to leverage lack of connection to begin your conversation
--Psssst. Sex outside the marriage can help
TRANSCRIPT:
Janelle Orion 0:01
Struggling to discuss sex and intimacy with your partner, not feeling met, seen or heard in your relationships. I'm Janelle And I'm Andrea. We're two midlife Mavericks sharing our own experiences, messy AF and no regrets with marriage, divorce, polyamory and pleasure. We've learned that when you're brave enough to figure out what you want and ask for it, with partners, friends, family and most importantly, yourself, you'll feel more alive and free question everything, especially your mother's advice. There's no rom com formula for this. But don't panic. Being alone
Andrea Enright 0:37
matters, honey, I can't miss you if you don't leave,
Janelle Orion 0:40
what if your breakup could
be your breakthrough? Our podcast is for brave hearts.
Anyone who seeks or has found the courage to confront their fears and limiting beliefs about breaking societal norms in the spirit of finding their truth. If you're seeking permission to be brave in your relationships and want to feel left alone along the way, we got you
Andrea Enright 1:03
please note, this is our side of the story. Our partners and metamours have their own individual experiences, and we do not speak for them.
New season and new format.
Janelle Orion 1:21
New format means every three months, we're gonna pick one question, and across 12 episodes, we'll interview experts each other brave hearts, so we can learn how to be brave in relationships together through breakups, breakthroughs and awakenings
Andrea Enright 1:42
in this series, we're focusing on one question,
Janelle Orion 1:46
how do I talk to my partner about sex and intimacy?
Andrea Enright 1:50
Yes, boom. Okay, let's dive in.
Janelle Orion 1:55
So on this episode, I'm interviewing Andrea about her experiences discussing sex and intimacy with her partner, that's right. So Andrea, how about just get us started, give us a little bit of a context of who you are and where we are in this moment.
Andrea Enright 2:10
Yes. So I've been married for almost 20 years, and we've definitely gone through different phases of sex and intimacy, right? Like Like, being super attracted to each other, and then being like, kind of meh, and then having sex often, and then having sex not so often, but at some point back in 2016
so it was like 11 years in to our marriage. We were not having sex often. It was low libido. And I really just didn't, I just wasn't feeling it, and I don't think he was either. But, of course, I can't speak for him, but we just like, weren't in that vibe with each other. And I remember at some point thinking, like walking, like, with this, like sexy, like, kind of broad underwear set, like, from the bathroom to the living room, and thinking, like, I don't think he even, he just, like, didn't even notice me, right? And I'm not, I'm not blaming him for that. Like, just, we, just, we didn't see each other anymore. I'm
Janelle Orion 3:16
curious with with you just named right? That, like, you went through different phases during that 11 years already. And do you think the different phases of sex and intimacy is normal in the long term marriage? For sure,
Andrea Enright 3:29
it can be expected. Yes, I think long term marriages go through different phases of waning and waxing sex and intimacy. And I think that's incredibly normal. What does normal even mean? I think it's really common. I think it's human. So
Janelle Orion 3:44
in this moment, though, at year 11, in this lull, did this lull feel different? Somehow? I think
Andrea Enright 3:52
I guess it did, or it must have hit some new chord for me. Here's what happened. Our intimacy had stalled, and that was noted, right? But it wasn't necessarily doing anything about it. It was just kind of brushed under the rug. And I thought, like, okay, maybe this is just how marriage went. You know, that was a little bit of shame around it, like, Oh, we're supposed to be having sex, but we're not. And then I also maybe just had a little apathy, like, oh well. Like, you know, everything else is fine. Like, let's not worry about it.
But then when our intimacy outside the bedroom also stalled, like, I was doing my own thing, he was doing his own thing, we didn't have a lot of overlapping experiences, except for with our child,
and I tried to kind of get us to like, oh, maybe we should watch a show together or and I think he wasn't interested. But I don't blame him for that, either, like it felt too forced, right? And he wasn't interested in what I was doing, and I wasn't interested in what he
Janelle Orion 4:55
was doing. So I really want to double click on that. I. I don't know why that's funny, but
Andrea Enright 5:03
yes, double click me. Double click me.
Janelle Orion 5:07
Of you saying what felt different this time around was not that the intimacy in the bedroom had stalled, but it was the intimacy outside of the bedroom, and I think that's just really significant for all of us who are listening to you, to think about because that's to me, is actually expanding the view of intimacy, of what is intimacy, and when does it happen? Yeah,
Andrea Enright 5:33
because I think of the word intimacy as being, I could have an intimate conversation with you. We don't have to touch right? That is intimacy. There's intimacy in the bedroom and there's intimacy outside the bedroom, and I didn't feel connected to him outside the bedroom either, except in a sort of a family parenting way, right?
Janelle Orion 5:55
That sounds like that was new, like were the ups and downs of the of the bedroom intimacy that had been going on for 11 years, but in this moment, you realized that the outside of the bedroom intimacy had really kind of stalled, and that either felt new, or at least new in your system to be like, Oh, I don't know if we're going to come back from this on the outside of the bedroom part. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 6:17
I don't even know if I went that far. I was just like, it felt different to me. But, you know, we may have experienced it before, but at that particular moment, it felt more alarming. And so this is when I happened to bump into an old flame, and we had some chemistry, and I talked to my husband about it, and said, Hey, I'd like to try this, you know, just to see how it goes. And it's funny, we didn't call it polyamory. Then, of course, we were just like, hey, like, I'm gonna go have, like, coffee with this guy. What do you think? And he's like, Okay, right? And then I came home from that trip and I was like, hey, it read really well, and I'm feeling some chemistry. I think I'm just gonna pursue it. And it was long distance. It felt very safe. And so we started it. We decided to try it. So I just
Janelle Orion 7:10
wanna acknowledge right? You're like, oh yeah, we just decided to try. Like, you just decided to come home and be like, Hey, I know. Hey, I ran into this guy at the coffee shop, and he's actually pretty hot, and what do you think? And so I always want to give you credit that. Like, that conversation. I don't know if that was a hard conversation or not. Like, how was that conversation for
Andrea Enright 7:31
you? Yeah, well, noted, like, I already knew this person. He was an old flame. I didn't mention him at the coffee shop, like, so that just is a different context. But
how did I but it wasn't taking courage, yeah,
I guess I realize now that two things were going on. One, that we weren't having a connection, my husband and I, and so I thought, okay, maybe this will help, or we have to do something different. And two, I was reeling from this, the chemistry connection I had with this new person. I was like, Oh, something has to happen. Like, I have to, I have to pursue this. Like, I didn't feel like I had a choice. Like, this was like, supposed to happen, right? And so, yeah, I think my excitement and my maybe that like adrenaline and the dopamine and the kind of, what is it? Is it cortisol? What goes on when you like, when you first fall for someone, right? I
do not. I'm not.
So it's just like something was happening, right? And I was like, Okay, I wanna explore this.
Janelle Orion 8:42
But it also sounds like your husband was game. Yeah,
Andrea Enright 8:47
he was always game to try new things. And specifically, since we were not having sex and didn't feel connected, it was almost easier. We'd always been okay with each other having outside friendships. We had recently gone on a double date with his high school girlfriend and her boyfriend. When they were in town, plenty of people thought it was crazy at the time for doing that. They're like, what does she look like? Maybe she's still in love with your husband. And you know, it was great. It turned out great, like we both I was fascinated, like I wanted to hang out with her. We both loved the same person, right? So to me, we were already intimately connected, but so we were comfortable with that kind of thing. And I think it just made a lot of sense to us at the time to say, okay, like, let's try this. So
Janelle Orion 9:31
what I'm hearing with that, right, in this first big conversation, or not the first but a big conversation about sex and intimacy, right, you both recognized you weren't feeling connected, you weren't having sex. You both had a already without anything having happened, a pretty broad, open view of like relationships within the marriage, outside relationships. And both were courageous enough and confident enough to be like, Okay, let's just try something different and see what happens. Without really knowing what any of that meant.
Andrea Enright 10:02
Yes, and I should correct that. You know, these conversations worked for us partly because he's the laissez faire one and I'm the nervous one, right? I was coming to him with this. He's always like, Sure, let's try it. We'll see how it goes. This is what he's been like about everything, right? Whereas I would have been like, oh my god, we need a plan. Are you sure this makes me so anxious, so if he had come to me with this, I don't know, I don't know how that would have gone. Yeah,
Janelle Orion 10:26
thanks for acknowledging that, right? That? Yeah, your husband is grounded, which can sometimes be annoying, as we also know in this exact moment, was really perfect to allow you, for both of you, to expand beyond what was already there.
Andrea Enright 10:45
So in a sense, this is how, one of the ways I spoke to my husband about sex and intimacy, I approached him about something new. So next, what happened, though, because I really want to get to this next juicy part of how it changed, how we talked about sex and intimacy, is that being with this, I'll call him my boyfriend at the time, was amazing, right? I fell in love with my body. I felt seen. I felt like he had ignited a new life force in me. I felt appreciated, I felt recognized for who I was. You know, I was being fed, and I wanted that like that passion, it started raising my libido. And it actually raised my libido with my new boyfriend and with my husband, even though those experiences were so different and they had nothing to do with each other, literally or metaphorically. Do you have a question? Yeah,
Janelle Orion 11:42
well, okay, you just said so much. Just want to pause you for a second. So how often were you seeing your boyfriend at that point like you said, you said he was long distance. Yeah, I was talking to him every day, like lots of times a day, but I only saw him once the first year. Oh, wow. Okay, lots of phone sex. But So okay, lots of fun sex, and one time physical sex weekend that you result of that, what I heard you say was you fell in love with your body more your libido went up. You felt more alive. You felt more ignited. So all of that happened, which I just really want to call out, those are massive changes for you on the internal yeah, that happened as a result of being brave and having that conversation, and then what you're on the last thing you said was oh, and then that my increase in libido also then pertained to my husband.
Andrea Enright 12:34
Yes, and I will say it didn't happen right away, like I would say, maybe after a year of that, I think I saw my husband in a new light, but it took a while, right? I was pretty obsessed with my boyfriend for a while, and my husband was like, okay, like, I don't want to hear about it. I know what's going on. That's fine. But after a while, I saw my husband differently, and I wanted more sex more often, and I wanted to be intimate, and I wanted to see him and see him differently, and I wanted to connect with him differently,
Janelle Orion 13:04
and I so I imagine that that might be surprising, right for some people to hear that having having sex with someone else who's not your lifetime partner, can actually impact your desire to have sex with your husband in a really positive way, like that, where there was, I'm sure that there were challenges, but there was also a lot of benefits to your relationship with your husband by having another person involved.
Andrea Enright 13:31
Yes, I think you're right, probably because love just keeps going, right? We've learned this, like more love begets love. Falling in love with yourself is key, and I think it gets left out of storylines. When you fall in love with someone, you can often with the right person, turn toward yourself and fall in love with you. And falling in love with yourself is such a humbling experience, because it made me more generous, more forgiving and less judgmental of myself, and therefore I became more generous, more forgiving and less judgmental of others.
Janelle Orion 14:11
Brave hearts, take a deep breath on that one, right? What Andrew just said about it, actually, it all comes back to falling in love with ourselves. Yeah, all these relationships with others. So what I'm hearing then, how, like, how did talking of it to bring it back to our question, how did this help you talk to your partner about sex and intimacy?
Andrea Enright 14:37
Because it renewed my courage and confidence in my body and my skills in the bedroom, I had less fear. I had more motivation. Sex was on my mind more. I was like, No, we're gonna make this happen, right? I'm gonna make sure that this happens. I was self pleasuring more. I knew what phone sex was. I knew it worked. I was getting to. My body in a new way. I knew what I liked, which meant it was easier to ask for it. It all contributed to having more bravery and courage, and ultimately, that's what it takes, like that's the bottom line. We can talk about all these different tactics about how to talk to your partner about sex, but it is really just finding it in yourself, that bravery to it. So I think ultimately, like the resolution is like having a relationship with myself was key to having these conversations, so I could know what I want, ask for, what I want, and have the courage to talk to my partner.
Janelle Orion 15:37
All right. So what happened next? So everything that happened
Andrea Enright 15:41
there really is a hack. I didn't actually start talking about sex more right away. I was still nervous to talk sometimes, for sure. I mean, I wanted intimacy, but actual intercourse seemed kind of complicated. I don't know why that's funny to me, but like, like intercourse is like, you know, you've got, like you're both trying to orgasm, and you got the timing, and you know, you have to make sure that you have space, and you have to make sure no one's listening, and it's just more complicated, right? And we had, of course, history and habits, a dynamic that we were already associating with our bedroom and our couple dumb
Janelle Orion 16:19
and I felt like my broader knowledge of my body and pleasure helped me start a little bit more simply. So in bed, during that awkward should I say, are we gonna have sex tonight? Part, I just found it was easier to start with a blow job. I liked giving blow jobs. I know he liked them, too. I was confident. It gave me control. It was less emotional, right? So I started doing that, and that connected us and helped us give each other pleasure. And it just kind of kicked things off, right? And then maybe we would have sex from there, usually not, but like, it was like, Oh, we both were so happy, and that was a way to reconnect physically, okay, so what I'm hearing with that, like, back to our question of, how do I talk to my partner about sex and intimacy, is that you actually also broaden the definition of sex, right? Like, in your mind, you were like, Oh my gosh, sex. Well, what I'm putting into your mind is here is like, oh, sex equals penetration. But then you were like, actually, that doesn't feel really great for me, but what does is giving blow jobs and then that's okay, right? You both are getting to enjoy that and so that. But that took you untangling that sex was supposed to look a certain way with your husband in order for it to count. Yes,
Andrea Enright 17:33
exactly. I also realized I was in my body more than I used to be. I used to be very much in my mind, right? And so getting out of my mind was helpful. So ironically, how this all came together, though, was that we were our bedroom was, like, our house is pretty small, so our bedroom was, like, really close to, you know, the living room and the kitchen and the bathroom, and like all the other places that were householding.
And when I turned this on its head, the fact that I was usually thinking about Google calendar at night, at nine o'clock when I was in bed with him and asking him questions about that which was not helpful for our sex life, made me think, oh, maybe if I combine these things, maybe if I put this on the calendar like this is going to make us do it right, and this is scheduled sex. People talk about this all the time. I used to be like, Oh yeah, that sounds so unromantic. I feel like I took the best of both things and I made it work. So Google calendar was solid and certain. I knew I was going to follow that. And there was a night when my daughter always went to gymnastics, right? She was gone for like an hour and a half, right? And I would drop her off. And I was like, Okay, we're gonna have gymnastics flow, job night, right? Like, I'm gonna go drop her off, I'm gonna come home. He's gonna be ready in bed. We're gonna have it. We're gonna be, like, loving it, enjoying each other. It's gonna be like, this window of time, not too late, when it was, like, nine o'clock and we're tired,
and, yeah, that really worked for us. I remember
Janelle Orion 19:05
you telling me about these gymnastic blow jobs nights and me being like mind blown, loving it so much because, yeah, one it was at a time when neither of you were tired, right? You knew that your daughter was out of the house. It was a container of time. It wasn't like, oh, how long is this gonna last? Right? You knew you had, like, this hour, an hour and a half, and it was on the calendar in the way that, like brave hearts, in case, in case you're wondering, who's the organized, structured one of us. It is, Andrea, and so, like, you were taking a strength of yours, yeah, which is Google Calendar, and adding it to this area. That was like, oh, like, how do we make this work? Well or better, and putting them together, which I just love so much.
Andrea Enright 19:46
Yeah, I feel like I outsmarted the mundanity, you know, of scheduling by mixing it with the magic in a new way. And I brought in my definition of sex by understanding my. Body more,
Janelle Orion 20:00
right? And as as a wife and as a mom who's managing a whole bunch of different things that you just like, Okay, how can I combine all these things without saying like, Oh, I'm supposed to be something different. There's like, Oh no, I'm actually the integration and the culmination of all of these parts of, yeah, exactly. Okay. So then any other issues.
Andrea Enright 20:22
So one of the reasons I realized we had trouble having intimate discussions was because that while I would share an externally process, we've talked we've talked on a podcast about many times. This is our personality. We like to talk out loud about what's going on you and I, yes, correct. My husband had a different style. He would keep quiet. He processed slower, he processed internally. And I found this particularly challenging because I wanted to feel close to him, and he was hesitant to share, right and like my need for certainty was out of control, like I wanted to know. Please tell me. Please tell me. Please tell me. And so this was a communication challenge for us. I mean, we had different communication styles. For sure, I was extroverted, he was a little more introverted. I tended to probably lead with my masculine, he probably tended to lead with his feminine. I'm someone who needs to be surrounded like to feel like themselves. He's someone who needs space to feel like himself. So ultimately, I needed to have more patience, right? And I know that he was having conversations in his mind that needed to happen first before he said them out loud. And I remember you saying, Janelle, like, we have to go at the speed of the slowest processor, which I find so fucking annoying, but because I have this all this all this urgency, like, no, no, we have to do it right now, right?
Janelle Orion 21:44
And I just want to jump in there, right? Like, slow as processor, like, there's not, there's not, like, one is better. Like, faster is better. No, it's just like, two different ways of processing. And I'm just gonna jump in here with one reason, one of the books that helped me, because my ex husband at that time was also the introvert. So Angie, now you were and I were like, really like relating on this was the book quiet by Susan Cain, which is how to be an introvert in a world that doesn't stop talking. And it really helps me see because I had put our way of externally processing ahead and above as better than those who were internally processing and taking time to be with their state and their emotions without letting me know what they were. Yeah, so we were we were in alert you and I were in a learning curve. This did not come naturally for us
Andrea Enright 22:36
so huge, and I think and my husband often didn't share, partly because he was afraid of my reaction. I'm total overreactor, right? He didn't want to deal with it. I've always been drawn to intensity, and sometimes my attraction to that intensity won out, even if there was a more peaceful path, like, I'm like, Oh, this is going to disrupt stuff, but I want the intensity, and so I go for it. My emotions were very big. I reacted a lot. I had too much to say. Why couldn't I just chill out, right? And it made me feel like I was the wrong way to be. But to your point, like no one's right or wrong, my intensity is a beautiful part of me, right? And it's okay to embrace that.
Janelle Orion 23:21
And also, like, I think you actually described it as I love intensely or and I was like, That's a beautiful way to love.
Andrea Enright 23:29
Yeah, I totally do. Like, I'm all in all the way. Like, if you're gonna be loved by me, it's gonna be big and hard and, like, so intense. So I also blamed my emotions on him, right? So like he was the reason I was sad or angry or upset, like they were mostly things I knew about myself and I was aware and I felt shame about them, but none of this self awareness happened until I saw myself in the sole mirror of my boyfriend. Like, Oh, wow. Like, is that what I was doing? Like, that's hard to handle, that's annoying, that doesn't work. And then I went to ista, and a big aha moment came when I learned that my emotional release is not something that's wrong with me, it's just emotions and energy.
Janelle Orion 24:19
So, yeah, so I just heard you say a lot of things, and I just want to, like, break that down a little bit. One part was that, you know, you're was an you're an external processor. And had to figure out that your husband, who was an internal processor, in our vocabulary, there was just a difference in process, a difference in communicating, but not that neither, neither one was right or wrong. But then I also heard you say that you are, your emotions are really big, and you're you said that they're out of control, and you had a lot of judgment around how you expressed when he did say what he was thinking, when he finally came around, probably what he thought, then he would then you could potentially. React very big, very loud, very intensely, and which made him sometimes recoil and not want to share with you. So then you felt badly about how you reacted as a second piece. So then you were like, navigating that, and then the third piece of that was that when you did get really big and really react, and whether there was tears or anger, you blamed him for those reactions totally.
Andrea Enright 25:30
And then I had two aha moments. One, I saw myself in my boyfriend, because he was also very similar to me, very intense, very emotionally reactive. And I was like, Oh, wow, that's really hard to deal with. Like, that's a problem, like, I have to fix that.
Janelle Orion 25:46
Okay, yeah, well, that's a beautiful, like, Soul mirror piece. Got it.
Andrea Enright 25:50
And then I went to ista, and I realized that I am not a bad person, like, I'm not wrong for having these big emotions, like, and that helps reduce my shame around it. I was like, Oh, okay. They're just emotions or just energy. I just have to move them through. I have to express them. And that was big, like, it didn't change overnight. It was a long process, but oh my gosh. I was so happy to be like, yay. I can still be myself.
Janelle Orion 26:14
Well, what I'm hearing with that too is that you your emotions were okay, but they were also what I'm hearing is your responsibility like they were also weren't your husbands, and so you were unlocking the blame of him while acknowledging that your emotions were okay, well,
Andrea Enright 26:32
yeah, like I got to there eventually, right? So, but first I had to learn to channel and release those emotions, take responsibility for them, rather than putting them on someone else. And I learned to say things like, I'm not mad at you, but I am upset, and I have energy to dispel right? Or, Oh, I feel a charge coming up. Like, you know, I would literally start to feel it in my chest, and my voice would rise, or I would start swearing, right? And to his credit, like, he totally was like, okay, cool. Like, I get it. You know, he just, like, really was patient with me, and I had to learn how to own my own emotions, which
Janelle Orion 27:06
brave hearts. So key we're talking about, how do we talk about our to our partner, about sex and identity? Guess what? Emotions are part of the waters we're swimming in here. And so it is key to learning how to have these conversations is learning how to be responsible for our own
Andrea Enright 27:24
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, basically our difficult conversations went from toxic to like tolerable and from almost volatile to just like voices across the kitchen counter, like it just they shifted so much. And of course, me owning my emotions and knowing how to dispel my emotions encouraged him to share more. And so we created, I would say, like we created more brave space.
Janelle Orion 27:51
Yeah, yeah, beautiful. Because what I'm also hearing it goes both directions, right? You learned, and I get it took a long time to stop blaming him for your emotions, which also meant that, I don't know what he was thinking, but he might have blamed himself for your emotions, right? Like, maybe you know, like that was a learning curve for him, too. And I just to interject, I remember at one point my reaction is often to cry when my emotions get high, and my partner was like, I really, like, don't like it when you cry. And I had to be like, I just need you to be able to stand in the face of my tears, and that's it. You don't have to fix them. They're not your fault, but they are emotions that I need to express. And like, it's like, I can't if I suppress them, then I'm like, containing myself. So we're Andrew and I are talking here, right? And Andrew's sharing her thing, but it's it requires both people to be able to own their own emotions and own when it's not there like that someone else's reaction isn't theirs either.
Andrea Enright 28:53
Yeah, it's so big and like, it just, I feel like I'm having an aha moment, even as we say this, like talking to your partner about intimacy and sex is it's just so much more than the intimacy and sex. It's about communication skills that you don't even realize you don't have. And cheers to you if you do have them. Amazing. But I didn't Yeah, and I didn't either, yeah, yeah. I really had to learn them. I mean, it's not only helpful for talking about big topics like intimacy and sex, it's helpful in any relationship when you're deciding anything, yeah, I agree with you. It's really big. I also want to stress to bravehearts that this is not about changing yourself. It's about like learning to navigate your own emotions and learning that you have a choice when the moment comes up. So when you're talking to your partner about intimacy and sex, and he's like, Hey, I don't like it when you do this, or I would prefer. This and like, oh, okay, oh no, that doesn't feel very good. Like, what's my reaction going to be? I mean, some of us are hurt and manifest as anger. Some of us are anger. It manifests as hurt. It, you know, it depends, but, but really sitting in choice and saying, okay, which way am I going to go on this?
Janelle Orion 30:18
Why we're talking about this brave hearts is because in our six months of in real life conversations, in our brave heart conversations, this is the question that came up in every single one by at least one person, if not multiple, yeah. And the flavor of the question, right? Was like, had to do with, you know, someone thinks that the sex is amazing, and someone doesn't think it as much. Or I, oh, I want something different than what they want, or I don't know what they want, and I'm afraid to ask them. And so this, like, this question, is so big, which is why we're dedicating 12 episodes to it from so many different perspectives. Because we're talking about different definitions of sex, we're talking about different definitions of intimacy. We're talking about different ways of being, you know, if you're monogamous versus poly, versus what turns you on and what does it but then ultimately, in all of this, it's really talking about communication skills that we didn't know we needed when we were in relationship, and that these skills are going to impact Not only this conversation with your partner, but will impact every part of your life, with every single person that you have in relationship to. So thank you. Andrea, I heard you describe that in terms of talking to your partner about sex and intimacy. The first part is it just takes courage, but that the courage pays off, because when you are being more aligned with what feels alive for you, then it ends up resulting in a sensation of self love. And that feeling of self self love broadens to every part of your life, and ironically, also helps you be more brave about having more conversations about sex and intimacy. We also heard you talk about that actually, there's so many communication tools and skills necessary to have this conversation. One, being responsible for your own emotions, not judging your own emotions. What type of processor you are, whether you're an internal processor or an external processor, no judgment that you can release the shame about how you respond to the emotions around having these conversations, and that there are skills that you can be utilizing about how To release emotions that are challenging. Is there anything else that you want to share with that?
Andrea Enright 32:44
I think I also just want to encourage brave hearts as part of the Braveheart homework too. Weaving this in is that, can you broaden your definition of sex? Can you broaden your definition of intimacy? Can you become aware of the different communication styles between you and your partner, knowing that neither one is right or wrong, but that they are different, and how can you work with each other? So yeah, I just, I encourage you to just explore those topics. Journal, talk, think about those and see what you come up with,
Janelle Orion 33:22
beautiful and so for our next two episodes, we are going to now interview experts. We're going to interview a sex therapist as well as a couples therapist to help us get more information and skills on how to talk to our partners about sex and intimacy. Stay tuned. We love your brave hearts. Bye. Hey, Bravehearts, looking for permission,
Andrea Enright 33:49
work with us. We offer Braveheart coaching. Follow us on Instagram, meet us in real life at a Braveheart conversation. Subscribe to our newsletter. Do all this and more at our website. Permission to be human. Dot live you.