Ep 83: Part 10/12, Sexual Exploration After 50 Years of Monogamy: How to Talk About Sex Series

Andrea and Janelle engage in a deep conversation with Braveheart and former emergency physician Doug Yeakel about his journey navigating the complexities of love, communication and vulnerability in relationships. He reflects on his own bravery and curiosity to share what’s on his heart, explores the idea of love beyond traditional boundaries and the significance of body awareness in understanding one's sexuality. There’s a nod to Sam Harris, the book “Cosmo Genesis”, RBDSM, full body orgasms and agelessness as well. You’ll hear:

--Why naming your sex conversation with humor helps you own it (Doug calls it Book Club)

--How Doug put his vulnerability on a platter

--Why bodily presence is so critical for the hard conversations --Why sharing the last 10% of your desires is so fucking important

--How different types of togetherness can help you feel loved in new ways

--Why aging does not have to limit capacity for love and exploration

--How sexuality, plant medicine and mountain biking can lead to new states of consciousness

TRANSCRIPT:

Janelle Orion 00:01

Struggling to discuss sex and intimacy with your partner, not feeling met, seen or heard in your relationships. I'm Janelle And I'm Andrea. We're two midlife Mavericks sharing our own experiences, messy AF and no regrets with marriage, divorce, polyamory and pleasure. We've learned that when you're brave enough to figure out what you want and ask for it, with partners, friends, family and most importantly, yourself, you'll feel more alive and free question everything, especially your mother's advice. There's no rom com formula for this. But don't panic. Being alone matters, honey, I can't miss you if you don't leave, what if your breakup could

Andrea Enright 00:41

be your breakthrough? Our podcast is for brave hearts.

Janelle Orion 00:45

Anyone who seeks or has found the courage to confront their fears and limiting beliefs about breaking societal norms in the spirit of finding their truth. If you're seeking permission to be brave in your relationships and want to feel left alone along the way we got you.

Andrea Enright 01:07

Okay, wow, talking to a 72 year old wise elder has already deformed the cultural conditioning that is on my heart about aging.

Janelle Orion 01:23

Yeah, Doug was so generous with his heart with us and his journey that he has been on as this man who was monogamous for 50 years of his life, then journeying into figuring out what he's capable of in relationship, and just his curiosity and willingness to explore the crevices of consciousness and of heart and of sexuality was really just

Andrea Enright 01:53

beautiful. Yeah, he was, he was such a model of courage for how to share that 10% of your body that's deep in your heart that you're just not usually quite willing to be vulnerable with. And he shows us how to do it with some beautiful metaphors and analogies and like making us think it's possible to just put it out there that you won't regret it, that he's so happy that he had those hard conversations. This conversation was beautiful.

Janelle Orion 02:27

Yeah, so enjoy, brave hearts. It's coming your way right now.

Andrea Enright 02:34

Hi, brave hearts, welcome to permission to be human. I'm Andrea and I'm

Janelle Orion 02:39

Janelle, and you are here for our next episode of this 12 part series of how to talk to our partners about sex and intimacy, and Andrea and I, along this whole time, have been interviewing ourselves. We've been interviewing experts, and we've also been interviewing brave hearts and yay. Yeah, it's been so rich, so juicy, and we are so excited to introduce to you one of our favorite, brave hearts, someone that I have known well now for a couple of years, who's listened to many, many, many of our podcasts, and he's here to share his story with us. We're so grateful. Yes, I'm excited to introduce our Braveheart Doug yackel, also known as Doug ya cool.

Andrea Enright 03:29

He splits his time between a house high in the Colorado maki mountains on 17 acres deep in the woods, about three miles outside of a small mountain town and a condo that's closer to the front range. He's monogamous and in a high frequency relationship with a woman who lives about 30 miles away. Doug is a retired emergency physician with five children and eight grandchildren. He loves to ski hike and mountain bike, and is a regular explorer of ideas through books and podcasts. Thank you so much for being here today. It's

Doug Yeakel 04:10

my pleasure. It's great to be here in this format.

Janelle Orion 04:15

Yes, and so for the bravehearts listening, I want you to know that I met Doug about a year ago. He was, at the time, dating an old friend of mine who I had not I'd known for about 20 years, but had not spoken to maybe in about 10, and they were thinking about opening up their relationship after having been together for a very long time, and wanted support, and they thought of the podcast, they were listening to the podcast, and they thought to reach out to get some brave heart coaching. And so I had the pleasure of working with Doug and his partner for about six months, and I am thrilled, because I've really witnessed an incredible journey of hims and, yeah, just. Yes, I'm so excited to dive in. Thank

Doug Yeakel 05:02

you so much. Yes, it has been a journey, absolutely.

Janelle Orion 05:06

And one thing I want to mention, just right off the bat for the bravehearts listening, is that Doug is 73 and I he's going to tell us a little bit about his story, but I want us to, like, set that in, because, as we just heard from his bio, he's super active, he's vibrant, he has He's a family man. He's also a professional. He's super, super athletic, and he's full of aliveness. And he brought that aliveness into this journey of curiosity around what partnership can look like. And so I want, for me, it's been an inspiration getting to know him, because it has suddenly like lifted the calf off of what age is supposed to look like.

Doug Yeakel 05:44

Thank you. I take that as a genuine and meaningful compliment. It's that takes an effort to keep that fire alive and going, so I appreciate that. Thank you. Mm, hmm. So let's

Janelle Orion 06:00

just get started. Like, what was the hardest thing that you experienced when it comes to talking about sex and intimacy with either your former partners or your current partner,

Doug Yeakel 06:11

accepting the bravery and both of you have described many times in your lives where you come to a point and you take a deep sigh, and you just have to jump and assume that you know the forces that are at work are going to take care of that. I know Janelle used to be a mountain biker, and I know that you've been in a place where you go, ah, but then you say, Okay, I'm prepared. I've done the work. I'm just going to go. And so finding that bravery, I think, is that's the crux, the crux move. And in climbing, there's always that one move that gets you through that spot, and you have to just go, and the willingness to experience it, and then if there are consequences, you'll you'll work them through. And so that, that, to me, is the the core essence. There's a lot before that, and there's a lot during and there's a lot after that, comprise the bigger picture. But you ask for that one spot, but it's like, ah, yeah, I'm gonna do this.

Janelle Orion 07:23

Can you give us an arc kind of of your life and the different relationship formats you've been in, and then maybe give a little summary of, like the one that you were in that prompted us to work together?

Doug Yeakel 07:36

Okay, sure. Ah, well, I met a woman in college, we fell in love, we were married. That marriage traveled through medical school and residency and children, and that lasted. We were together five years and then married for 41 so that 46 year relationship of committed monogamy and committed parenthood and committed professionalism. We did it well. We did it together that ended in 2018 with her death of a brain tumor, and that, you know those moments are always formative. Oftentimes, they destroy you, or they can make you, you know, you've heard the term, it's going to either make you stronger or kill you, whether that's in terms of your own psychology or your own health, both, both come into play. So obviously that was a big, big part of my life was that, and it continues on in the legacy of kids, three of which were biological, two of which were adopted. And even the adoption was a celebration of life for the two of us. I would share that I lost a daughter in that process, when she was two. And these are the these are the tough moments that form us into who we are. And then with her passing in 2018 I was looking to the world and saying, Where do I go now? Another woman came into my life. I knew for me, the presence of the female energy is important to me. It brings meaning. I was an ER physician. I lived in a world of women. Professionally. I had four sisters growing up, had daughters, and so the role of the feminine is really additive to me in terms of who I am in my life. And so I didn't want to not have that developed a relationship with a person I had known. We crossed crossed paths in our profession, in medicine, and then she came. Into my life. That was another six and a half years after, and as we grew together, and then, in a way, grew apart, looking for ways to celebrate that, understand it. You mentioned in the intro that this is where i The two of us actually engaged in what you two have developed and brought in terms of your podcast and then in a formal relationship, working with you, Janelle, over many weeks, trying to discover what that meant.

Andrea Enright 10:34

So Doug, what made you reach out to Janelle? What questions did you have in your relationship, and where were you stuck?

Doug Yeakel 10:43

Great question, because if we weren't stuck someplace, we probably would have been happily ever after, but that sticking is what causes you to ask questions. I think we found that we looked to was it possible to have a live apart together type relationship, there was a need to have some separateness. I had been in that long term relationship. Laurie had been in other relationships, but had not been in the style I had. I was surrounded by chaos. She was surrounded by serenity. I was used to chaos. She was used to more serenity, and that provided some discord, I would say so as we experimented with that, living in different places, but maintaining a relationship, that caused me to have some concerns. I felt I wanted to not be physically alone. We had some differences in our sexuality that we're developing, which we pretty much talked about pretty openly, which is the subject here, how do you do that? She, let's say, I'm not going to speak for her. You'll have that chance for her to speak to you. I desire to have that type of intimacy. Is a very integral part of my life. It still happens, even in 73 it's cultured and nurtured, and perhaps there's wisdom within it, and also senses of tolerance, but there's that same mystical beauty of that type of relationship was critical for me, and it became less critical for her. So those two things, our our intimacy, or struggling to have, find that or define that, and also whether we were going to actually spend in person, contact on a regular basis, living with each other, which we did for almost five and a half years, those are the two things that not evaporated, but went under a metamorphosis. And we said, you know, our relationship now is not we're not happy, not It's not being unhappy, it's just being not as fulfilled as we wanted it to be. And this is what prompted us to say, let's, let's look at other options, ways to do and I think that was our approach with the two of you having heard your podcast, and the breadth of ways to not ways to solve these but other opportunities to look at for trying to find and preserve that fullness for each other. And

Janelle Orion 13:16

so with that does like so you had this moment of stuckness, and as you've described, you know, you have been in monogamous relationships this whole time, your whole life up to this point. So what were some of the things that were either whether they were revelations or that you learned tools or communication tips from working whether you were working with me, but just like along this journey, what did you What did you learn?

Doug Yeakel 13:41

You know, I thought about how I'm going to answer these questions quite a bit before this event right now. And I think one of the things that the tool is most informative is just to explore and to learn and to understand. So the two of you have mentioned many resources and books to read and podcasts to listen to. So for me, it was a matter of opening up to I developed pretty much a voracious appetite for trying to understand what else is there, what's and I've always had that approach in my life, whether it's through physical fitness or adventuring, or activities or exposures, be brave enough to not put boundaries up. We talk about the boundary issue, and I, you know, I've told people when asked, What are your boundaries? I go my My desire is to find out what my boundaries are, because I'm not yet sure I really have too many boundaries. I haven't really hit any that are like, No way. It's like, there's always something to be taken so I really developed a voracious appetite to read and to learn. One of the first books I read, it won't talk about sexuality, but was. Cosmo Genesis by an ecologist and astrophysicist, speaking about the very fact that this universe probably has its own intelligence, and I wanted to do whatever I can to try to see if I can feel that underpinning of intelligence that's pervasive in this universe we live in. That sounds perhaps a little woo, woo out there, but it's really been a driving force in terms of all these things, of which sexuality is one of them.

Andrea Enright 15:36

So I love how you distilled this down, really, to like, just explore, like, just be curious, right? Like that. It's such a simple concept, but it sounds like you really went forward with a lot of courage. I'm curious. What were your fears like? Was there anything that was holding you back? Or why wouldn't have you moved forward in those moments?

Doug Yeakel 16:00

I would say the thing that held me back would be my concern, that it would be felt and understood by my the people that are most meaningful to me, which in my life now, are my children. My children are adults. They're age 45 and down, their presence and understanding of who I am as their father and a person was critical to me. I could recall many times you two have discussed how you talk about poly to your family members when you want their love and you love them, but yet how they may not understand these things. So I guess it was a not a fear, but more of a concern. I separate worry and concern be very different things. I was concerned about their acceptance, and that that would would be probably the thing that most was the most significant hesitation for at least five seconds.

Andrea Enright 17:08

And so it sounds like that was about that was about the state of your relationship, or the choices you were making. Thanks for explaining that is it. I also just want to dig a little deeper into the any other fears you had about speaking with your partners, like about the sex and intimacy? Is there anything that stopped you there or made you hesitate? Well,

Doug Yeakel 17:36

I would say that those conversations were never had for 46 years with my first relationship, probably as much my own ignorance as well as just the and we've we've talked so many times of the training and how we've been taught to be certain ways, and we've accepted those ways, and we just flow with that current. And we were not brave enough to take the tributary. So that was the first 46 years, the next six years with Laurie. One of the cool things is that we were both medical professionals and worked in, you know, with patient care, you have to just be totally honest. I couldn't be a good ER doc without being 100% honest and open. I always valued and I couldn't take care of a patient unless they're 100% and open. So being brave enough say, Hey, this is me. This is what I'm feeling. We all get that feeling. I think I do is I know when I'm not saying everything I want to say, I'll say most of it, but I save that 10% and I don't share that 10% so feeling that 10% sitting stuck there inside of you, and then just blah, vomiting that 10% forward is, that's the leap. You know, we all have that 90% we'll share. But if you don't go that last 10% the first 90 doesn't really count for much

Andrea Enright 19:12

amazing. Yeah,

Janelle Orion 19:14

I love, I love the analogies and the visuals I can like, feel it, feel it in my body. Yeah. And so I'm curious. I just heard what changed over time and now what surprised you about some of the conversations you were having when you started sharing that 10%

Doug Yeakel 19:31

what surprised me is how ridiculous it was that I didn't share the 10% earlier. It's like it really wasn't that hard, and nobody exploded into flames, and world didn't crumble. It was actually, the surprise was, Wow, that was easy, and that was cool. So and then to hear somebody else's 10% you know, it's again, I'll go back to the mountain biking. You get down the hill, you go. Ha, and you know that flow state, and we talk about those states, because I think the sexuality and the sharing of sexuality is just one other component of those states of consciousness that is really what in is so exciting to me. Now I know we're going to focus on, how do you talk about sexuality, but it as a state of being to explore that is just one of one of many ways to explore who you are as a person, and it's bring such value to do that and to be satisfied with ripping yourself open and giving them that last 10% and then see what happens.

Andrea Enright 20:46

Doug, so much wisdom. Thank you.

Janelle Orion 20:49

Yes, yes. What I'm hearing is that just the sharing, the sharing of this 10% right? So we're not even talking about physical contact, right? But that, in and of itself, is actually deeply intimate and life affirming to be open to that. I mean, without knowing what the other person is going to say, sure, once they hear it,

Doug Yeakel 21:14

yeah, that's you're offering your vulnerability on a platter, and you don't know if you're going to get sliced and diced or have a gourmet meal, it might go either way. Great,

Janelle Orion 21:27

great visual. But that ultimately, like the aliveness is from offering right? Offering the vulnerability on a platter is where it's at, is what I'm hearing, right? It's not actually, did they take it? Did they eat it. Did they want it this way or that? It's where you get to control where each of us, each of us as listening, as brave hearts and on the podcast, we get to say, Oh, if I want to feel more alive, then I Doug suggesting that I put my vulnerability on a platter. Yeah,

Doug Yeakel 21:58

that 10% out there and go for a ride. Yeah, the two of you have spoken so much of that, and I see that in what you do too you your success is that you're tossing out your 10% to people you don't even know. And I think that's what I was drawn to and inspired by you're asking me to give my 10% out to a lot of people I don't know right now. So that's kind of we'll see what happens.

Andrea Enright 22:33

The flatters, yeah, the platter is here.

Janelle Orion 22:38

So Doug, what I would love to hear, since I know a little bit more of your story, you know you and and Laurie are no longer in a relationship, but you did, there was a very thoughtful many conversations about sex and intimacy as you because the initial idea was, can we say it together, but we don't know and like, so can you give a little bit of your perspective of like, kind of where you guys ended up, but then speaking to really, your journey, because you both, but specifically your experience of date, you dated a lot of people to land in the relationship that you are right now, and you went through a pretty big journey to get to you didn't go from monogamous to monogamous. You

Doug Yeakel 23:18

know, I was monogamous for 46 years, but you know, it doesn't mean I wasn't attracted. So I had a, I wouldn't say, a poly tendency, but you know, I, I could see other women and feel their attraction, but I, I was committed to my monogamy through that, when Laurie and I started feeling the way we were. It felt to me that I was fully capable of giving love to more than one person, that I felt energized by giving of myself to other people. And in that case, it I, I was surprised by how much love I felt I could give to more than one woman at a time. And I was also surprised at some of the conflict that that would bring to accomplish that at my young, ripe, tender age of 73 you know, to go on to a dating site and try to open some doors. I live in a very small town, so it's not, it's not ripe with social opportunities. So I went into that dry desert of a male on a dating site and experienced the arid, non productive outcome, and and waiting and waiting, and maybe something. But so that was, that was an experience, a humbling experience. You know, you put a an attractive, beautiful woman on a dating site, and I'm sure the flood gates are open, and you just, you're too busy saying, no, no, no, and I. Just sitting there. So that experience of finding myself capable of and wanting to give love to more than one person was was a pretty satisfying experience, even in stark contrast to my prior over 50 years of monogamous commitment, and it was pretty energizing to feel that it wasn't universally accepted by the different women that I developed relationships with. The predominant approach was, Doug, I'd like to be with you, but only if you're monogamous with me. And I go, Well, that's that's not the way I've centered my life right now. And that conflict was also pretty surprising. I was criticized quite a bit. I was called some very uncomfortable names by which, in response to saying, I just want to love some people, or I find people that I would like to love, and then I because I say that I'm a asshole, that's the surprising part. It's such an irony and but our society has taught us that that's that's the definition, and if we don't comply, and I find myself becoming pretty much of a contrarian, I'm looking to see where I've been formed, and then I try to deform it. And do that within the context of, I'll use your tagline, permitting myself to be human who I am, and finding that giving myself permission to do these things in terms of my own consciousness, my own sexuality, how I talk to people, and if it's done with honesty and love, then I'm not going to worry too much about the downside anymore.

Andrea Enright 26:56

Doug, I'm curious like when you made this leap that you just so beautifully described with Lori. Was there a mismatch at first? Was she okay with it? Was it your idea? Was it her idea? Can you help me understand how that conversation went?

Doug Yeakel 27:18

I think she probably planted the seeds, whether she did it knowingly or purposely or accidentally, and said, Listen to my two friends from Denver. I hope she never regretted that. So I have, I have strong memories of being out in the woods on my bike, listening to your podcasts, riding the single track and just going, huh? You know, I've never really thought about doing that, but maybe so as that developed, though it was really in we did it in concert. We talked about it a good bit. I know she left and did a big trip. I was injured from a ski accident, so as she she went out, did a big back country trip up in Canada, and came home and I said, Hey, I I got on Bumble, and I've met some women, and it feels good to me. And she says, I'm so happy for you. So fortunately, we didn't have to go through a period of dishonesty or hiding. We were able to be open about it. You ask her your own questions when that happens, and your audience will be there to understand those answers. I don't want to speak for her, is what I'm saying. But you know, our relationship didn't end, it transformed. And I think she and I talked to Janelle about this so much, we're going to go from committed partnership to committed friendship, and we're going to celebrate the partnership we had, and we're going to continue to hold in reverence the friendship that we have, and see where that goes. So we didn't we didn't divorce, we simply transformed, and the capacity to do that speaks to the value of what we did have. So I think again, that those are the just is, how do you talk about sexuality? How do you talk about your relationship? That's the 10% that had to be tossed on the table. You know. Okay, we can't make love together, we can't have sex together. We can't live together, so maybe we should just have a different definition of who we are in terms of a relationship. I sometimes because of my experience in life, I define the value of a relationship is sometimes defined by the grief that you experience when it goes away. Way, and the harder and more intense the grief, the more valuable the relationship was for your life. So I know that's sort of a it's not really a dismal way to look at things, but when you ask yourself about somebody that's really meaningful for you and and imagine not having that and feeling that pain, the degree of that painful feeling is really somewhat reflective of the value of that person to you.

Janelle Orion 30:27

Yeah. And what I would love to hear too Now Doug, is that during this journey, and I, you know the timing better than me of if it was six months or nine months from when you and Laurie kind of transitioned. You were dating, you've had you've also expanded in lots of new experiences, but you've you have described yourself now in in a monogamous, high frequency relationship, again with someone who doesn't live with you. So I'd love to hear how this choice ended up being the one that you made, like the journey that you got to to end up here?

Doug Yeakel 31:08

Well, I'm going to start by saying I haven't ended anything. My journeys are not ended. They are in process. That doesn't mean that I'm looking to do something after the one I'm in now, it's just there's so many words to describe who we are, poly, this, or non that, or mono, this, and, oh the it's an Endless Alphabet Soup there as well. I think I've decided I'm just an omnivore and I like to eat everything. We'll go back to the platter. I I'm I'm thrilled with my platter, and I'm thrilled with my relationship now. And being monogamous isn't really a state change, it's just, it's where I am and where my life is happy, and I'm happy here. I'm pretty well schooled at monogamy. I practiced it, and I was a faithful, monogamous husband, for you know, I didn't, I didn't cheat and I didn't. I played according to the rules and did well with the rules, and so now I just enjoy the that state of happiness, and that's the that's the expression of the stasis that we've talked about, different levels of consciousness that can bring you joy you want to touch on, that We can but it's just, it's another expression of living life fully and in a committed fashion. I I am happy to commit to monogamy with this woman, and it brings me great joy. And so it's not that I'm choosing one thing over the other is this is, this is where I am, and I want to do it with 100% commitment, and I know enough, and have experienced enough in these years to say I can't guarantee tomorrow. I can only bring to today what I can and keep reminding myself to give that other 10% and bring that out and not hide it in myself.

Janelle Orion 33:22

You were stating in your conversations about sex and intimacy with the partner you're with now, nine months ago, you were expressing that you were like, Oh, I feel I'm just going exploring Polly. And she was like, Oh, I'm monogamous. And so you guys did not stay together straight away, but you continued with that honesty and told you got to a point it sounds like where you're like, Oh, I've explored what I need to explore. I still actually have the capacity to love more than one person, and I can feel fulfilled in loving you the way that you're asking me to love you, which is monogamously. And so that's what I wanted to like your conversation involved, even with this one person, evolved over the course of nine months to the place where you ended up together in the same place, both fulfilled.

Doug Yeakel 34:09

We've talked about Zen diagrams and overlap and two circles, and they're not going to be contiguous and perfectly on top of each other. There will be differences. And I am happy to explore the crossover and live there and be happy in that, even though I know she probably has areas that are different separate from me, I have areas that are different separate from her. But then I'm trying to bring this back to the real point of your series right now is the expression of sexuality, and we talked about that a lot. It's we, we have a term for it. It's called Book Club. It's sort of the code words, we're going to sit down and we're going to open up and talk about these things that are important. What do you want? What brings you joy, and we have book club about the relationship. We have book club about our sexuality. And I've had a lot of book clubs with some really beautiful women about sexuality, as I did some of my own exploration. Some of that started with some guided plant journeys to help open up my mind. And to be honest, within those plant journeys, I had some amazing sexual revelation and experiences. I didn't really know what it meant when I heard somebody talk about a whole body orgasm, but in the midst of a well orchestrated deep psilocybin journey, I go, Holy shit, that's what they're talking about. So taking that kind of experience and then that 10% exposure, I and using some of the mnemonics. And you've you all have your favorite one that you use here on the show about, how do you talk about sexuality? That was exciting and it was scary and it was exposing, but it really serves as a great skeleton to to have a good book club. So being willing to say, hey, I need a book club is just a great step. And then you sit down and do a little discipline. Well, what are your boundaries? What are your desires, what are your fears? What would you say you want that you've never told anybody, but it's always in there. That's that 10% you know, sexually, relationship wise, what are you almost afraid to say? You know, you've always tucked that away inside and in your fantasies and so forth. So I'm certainly not perfect at it, and I'm sure I have a couple percentage points that are still tucked away, but being brave enough to you start to feel that sense inside when you've kept something in there. And I think we probably all know when you're not exposing yourself 100% it's a gut feeling, you know? It's a somatic feeling for me. It's kind of like deep in my chest somewhere, like, Okay, I know I saved something, or I met some amazing, amazing women, and part of me is sad, and I have some grief about them not being in my life. Back to the grief defines the quality of the care you have for somebody, but so I do grieve that loss, but I also celebrate what it is that they gave me and I was able to give them.

Janelle Orion 37:50

So with that, let's just take a deep breath, because Doug has shared so many beautiful things. Doug, how often are you doing book club or the alphabet? So you guys, we, as we say, rbdsm,

Doug Yeakel 38:08

right. You mean, with this current relationship? Yeah, I would say we probably we joke about a little bit all of a sudden we're talking about something or feeling something go. Is this book club, and you go, oh yeah, I guess it is kind of and that could be on a walk, it could be in bed, it can be at the dinner table, but I would say we touch there at least once a week, not with intention or design, but it just happens, and it gets its own energy and brings itself. The more you do it, the more it feels good. But you don't want to live there, you know, I don't want to be in the middle of book club and all the time, but it does provide sort of a touch place, a touchstone and a guiding framework that's important to come back to Doug,

Andrea Enright 39:04

I love your commitment to book club. Actually, what I love. I love your commitment to book club, but I love that your commitment to calling it something different, right? So you've named it in your life, you've created space for it. You've created a label for it. And I really want to encourage bravehearts to consider this, because I think when you make it your own, it becomes less scary, becomes more familiar, and you take more responsibility around it, to come back to it more frequently, to do it more consistently. And I believe after listening to you talk about it, it loses its negative power. Would you say that's right? Absolutely,

Doug Yeakel 39:51

yeah, I think so. I'm sitting here listening to you describe it, and I think that's a good way to put it, to name it. And. To use it. It almost now becomes a tool that we both can kind of trust because we've named it and because we've used it. I think the other piece is to really throw yourself in and respect what the other person needs in terms of a partnership where they are at for me to understand her sexuality and her to understand mine, through book club and through practice. And it's a little spooky to talk about those things, but boy, it just brings, eventually it comes back and brings such a degree of satisfaction I I've told her that what feels so good is to be so accepted for who I am, because she has come to know that because of these efforts To open and be brave enough to give that 10% I feel that I am loved in a different way than I've been loved before, partly because of my willingness to give and much credit to her for her willingness to accept and say, Hey, this is this is who you are, and you shared all of that with me, and I'd like that, and I are there things that I do that she doesn't like. I want to know those. But it also feels really good that because of that sharing and the commitment to talk and have book club and share that 10% that that really makes everything a lot better or more meaningful. I feel loved in a different way than I felt before. In my relationship with Lori, I felt that there were things that there were a lot of things that just bothered her about me that she felt uncomfortable with when I'm in her life. There were many that were great. I mean, we had a crazy experiences around the world together, doing things, skiing in the extreme mountain places, and teaching, teaching groups in Bhutan for three months. I mean, we had an amazing set of experience. People look like, holy cow, look what you guys are doing. Yeah, but we're not, but yet we're not fully together. And so we're together in a different way now, and I'm together in a different way now. Currently, I was out together in a way for 40 some years. It was amazing and phenomenal, and kids and a career, and we family and friends, and each of those stages had a different quality. Had its own book club in a different way, the book club now, and the book club about sexuality, if you practice that, that rolls over to every other aspect, too of your relationship. Like I think

Janelle Orion 43:13

there's so much to take in. And this the one other piece I just want to call out that I heard you say was with the book club that you brought in the somatic that you're like, oh, a guiding part of what I'm sharing is being told to me by my body. You said it was deep in your chest, someplace right where we that would that's helping you know whether you fully shared or you've still kept a little bit to yourself. How did you learn that? And how did you learn to bring that? Because it sounds like that's that's actually part of talking to your partner about sex and intimacy is knowing your own body and knowing what it's telling you.

Doug Yeakel 43:50

I think this has been part of my recent years of as a physician. I was, you know, I'm a science guy, I'm a math and physics guy, I'm a tech guy, all those things, and that's very hard core, but it's become important to me to understand that there's more out there than that. And I mentioned the book Cosmo Genesis and the intelligence of the universe and feeling the need to open myself enough to maybe sense the things that have been sensed for many, many eons of generations of humankind on this planet and animal kind, and I guess I could say the spirit world. I don't know what that is, but I sense something's there. And so experiencing that and then feeling that inside, we're just one layer after another, participating, not only in our home and our relationship and this country. Every this planet, but it's bigger than that, and it goes so for me, feeling that's deliberately trying to open myself to that, I mean, I've, in the past four or five years, have done some daily meditation work. I'll give tribute to Sam Harris and his approach and his app, waking up and constant exposure, taking some time, but then reading and listening and and feeling and to sit there and put away all the discursive thought we have, and then just feel your body instead of getting caught up and in the incessant ramblings of my own mind, which is hard to put away, but you're left with feeling inside, feeling your feet on the ground, or feeling something in your in your Heart or your chest. So it's, I certainly haven't perfected anything, but being engaged in that process has been really valuable, and it translates into, you know, sexuality is just another mystical presentation and expression of consciousness, and is one other area that whether it's meditation or, you know, we talked about the flow of athleticism, or whether it's expression, and touching on plant medicine and where that's It's all part of the same big picture, and expressing sexuality is one piece of that, one of and it's, it's such a you talk about feeling things in your body. I mean, what more prominent exposure is a deep sexual experience? I mean, isn't that all all so much somatic as well as energetic and, you know, mindful. So I guess I was going to say it's a tool, but it's just a way. It's not a really a tool, but it's such a valuable, potent, super potent way to feel within yourself. For

Janelle Orion 47:23

Hmm. Doug, on that note, we're gonna bring this, this beautiful conversation, to a close, but it's clear that we could just keep going and going and going. I'm finally getting a sense of why some podcast hosts talk for two hours. I'm like, that's such a long time. But now I'm like, Oh, the conversation gets just to go, but on. In our case, we are going to say goodbye and thank just thank you so much for sharing your 10% with us and with the brave hearts out there. And, yeah, it's just such a such a gift.

Andrea Enright 47:58

So grateful. Thank you. Thank you so much, Doug and

Doug Yeakel 48:02

thank you. It was your 10 that allowed me to give my 10. Thank you.

Andrea Enright 48:09

Thank you. We love you. Brave hearts, see you next time. Yes,

Janelle Orion 48:14

thank you for listening. Hey, Bravehearts, looking for permission

Andrea Enright 48:20

work with us. We offer Brave Heart coaching, follow us on Instagram, meet us in real life at a brave heart conversation. Subscribe to our newsletter. Do all this and more at our website. Permission to be human. Dot live you.